What would make a better knife show?

Raymond Richard

Raymond Richard

Joined
Jun 17, 2001
Messages
5,705
Over the last several years I've done a good number of shows and they have pretty much gone the sameway. There's a short period of time where there's actually a good sized crowd and thats normally on one day and the the rest of the time its like a ghost town except for the table holders scratching there heads wondering where the heck everyone went. 3 day shows for me and alot of the makers are one day to long. I've done two day shows that are one day to long. I talked to one fellow at Blade West yesterday saying he had done one day shows that were actually worth doing. Are there just to many knife shows? Do they need more demonstrations? Any suggestions on what you think would bring more people in the doors and keep them there longer?
 
Location, Location, Location

I am pretty sure Atlanta could host another show per year.
Shows should be easy to get to and in a place people wouldn't mind going to.
3 days is too long. I think a Friday, Sat show would go over better in the SEast than a Sat/Sun show.

Places like NYC and Las Vegas sell out shows rather easily with a lot of foot traffic and $$$$ floating around.
 
Anthony Lombardo said:
Location, Location, Location

I am pretty sure Atlanta could host another show per year.
Shows should be easy to get to and in a place people wouldn't mind going to.
3 days is too long. I think a Friday, Sat show would go over better in the SEast than a Sat/Sun show.

Places like NYC and Las Vegas sell out shows rather easily with a lot of foot traffic and $$$$ floating around.
Click to expand...

Anthony, Anymore I don't think it has to do with location unless its really at a bad one. I've seen the samething happen in both Atlanta and Vegas that I mentioned in my first post. I'm with you about shows not being on Sunday.

Is there something that isn't done at shows along the lines of siminars they would be of interest?
 
Im all for the Friday, Saturday show. 3 days is too long especially for table holders that need to get back home. If we had Sunday to travel we could relax and take our sweet time or get together at somebodys smithy and play.
The experienced collectors breeze through in the first few hours and the next day is the ghost town.
As a table holder I cant get away to attend seminars all day but they are neccesary for the public and those makers dont have a table. From what Ive seen the demos are great and probally dont need to be any different.
Advertisement is so important to reach new collectors and I always blame it for the low foot traffic. Television is expensive but needed. "word of mouth" is said to be the best so it must be our own fault. BladeWest was barely mentioned here on the forums that I read. My bad too.
 
I haven't been to any of the premium shows (i.e. Blade, Blade west etc.), just ones that are an easy drive from the Chicago area. I'd like to see more big names coming to the shows. The Chicago Custom show is shaping up to be a real good one, and I hope it continues to grow in both size and stature. I also go to the Janesville show in March and the AECA show in September. It is at these last two that I'd like to see less of the 10 table vendor with hundreds of crappy looking military surplus stuff, less of the "anything but knives" vendors, less of the China/Paki crap vendors. I'd like to see better food at a cheaper price... heck, I've eaten better at a ballpark! I'd also like to see some kind of demonstrations or competitions.
 
Personally, I'd like 2 day shows, Sat and Sun. Most collectors have full time jobs, so a Friday opening costs us at least 1 vacation day. On the other hand, a much larger % of makers are self employed and could travel back on Monday (not to mention that most shows could close very early Sunday at no loss). For the very serious collectors, the VIP hours could be extended to Saturday 8am-11am. As a collector, 1 day is all I need, and Friday is the most difficult for me to get. So I'd be perfectly happy with a 1 day show, as long as it is Saturday. The only exception to this is Blade, which IMHO is way too big anyway.

I think shows would benefit from doing whatever they can to attract one or two uber-stars - Loveless, Fisk, Carson, etc. If I were a promoter, I would invite one or two of these, and actually reward them for their presence - pay for their ticket and hotel, and have their table also paid for. This would recognize the fact that one or two of those will do more to promote the show than 20 less popular makers (note: I'm not talking about makers' skills but popularity). The other makers (who have to pay their way in) would benefit from the halo.
 
yeap........Friday afternoon..............1-5

Sat 10-3 after that it just a lot of people walking around looking (including me!!!) :p
 
Hi Raymond,

1) Yes, there are too many shows.

2) Only the Blade Show should be 3 days long, that is due to its size.

3) It does help the show foot traffic if you put it into a location that people can get to.

4) At every major show the first day (usually is Friday) is the day for most buyers. Saturday between 11-2PM are the primary sales hours. After that it starts to thin out rapidly.

5) Sunday, except for the Blade Show, for the most part is a waste of time. Why do Sundays continue to be part of the show?

A) The show promoter generally gets the room for the weekend. This bincludes the cost of insurance, security, and the room. Consequently they keep the room open. Any money on Sunday is a bonus. For the last several years I am on a plane home between 9 and 10AM on Sunday. I am usually home before the show offically ends on Sunday. This allows me the opportunity to unpack, clean the knives and put them away. As well seperate the new knives and get them ready to be photographed and put on the web site as soon as possible.

6) The Internet.

I was talking with a world renowned folder maker at the Chicago show. He said he blames the Internet and Dealers for his poor shows. I thought it was odd that he put dealers into the mix. He claimed that because the dealers offer such a variety of his work on the internet that people no longer come to shows to buy his knives. I told him the solution is simple stop selling to dealers. He lauged and said they are over 50% of my business. So in essence he longs for the old days where he would sell out but understands that shows are never going to be the same. So while he blames dealers he will not go so far as to stop selling to them. Apparently you cannot have your cake and it it too.

7) Local advertising is a waste of money. How many people do you think will come to their first knife show and spend (at the low end) $250 for a knife? Few if any. If they are a knife collector then they should be directly marketed to. Either advertising in Cutlery Magazines or directly to them with an email invitation or snail mail invite.

Foot traffic through the door puts money into the promoters pocket. Pre-qualified buyers at the show puts money into the table holders pocket as well as the promoters.

It is better to have 100 buyers with money coming through the door than 1000 who cry poor at every table they go to.

Im with many of you who wish there was a one day show. There has been a 1 day show in Timonium MD in December. The show is on a Sunday which I feel has always hurt the show. But they are lined up when the doors open at 10AM. The crowd is good till about 2 and then it really slows down. I haven't been in 5 years, but attended for 10 years before that. I liked the fact you flew in on Saturday, spent 1 night, then flew home on Sunday. Usually getting in late. Air fare, 1 Hotel night, a few meals and a fairly in expensive table fee. I could do the show for less than $500. I think if the show moved to Saturday. It would be busy all day and there would be a lot more people wanting tables at the show. I suspect it is the hotel not Ted, that is keeping the show on Sunday.

To sum up.

Shows should be no more than 2 days (except the Blade Show). Direct marketing should be done to collectors to get more pre-qualified buyers in the room. Location does help. Shorten the show hours to "encourage" buyers to make a decision. The show should put up its own web site (not piggy back off another site) that way you can keep the information up to date. You can use this site to "mine" for information for your marketing strategies.

Shows are great fun. I love the interaction with other knife knuts. But I have understood for years that shows are now, at least for me. As a place I go to buy knives, meet new makers, make some trades and gain new information and insight to the current and future market place. While I always cover expenses, I view that as just a bonus.

I realize that the makers take on shows will be different from mine.

As for the collectors, nothing beats a show for handling the knives and talking with those who sell them. They understand that if your not there on Friday, your chances of getting a knife from a popular maker are slim and none. Most know at least 6 months in advance when and where the show will be. Consequently they can plan to have the friday off in advance. Most are rewarded for their efforts.

Unfortunately for promoters they usually have to deal with a hotel and you would be amazed what you have to do to get a room at a popular hotel to keep the table fees down.

Most all of this falls under the category of business. A category that most in custom knives do not wish to discuss as it takes away from the artistry and fun of the hobby.

It is amazing the amount of work that goes into promoting a show. To those who put on the shows, those of us attend should thank them. But understand the promoters responsibility is to find a place in a good location and try to get as many people in the door as they can. It is the responsiblity of the table holders to bring what the customers want to buy. Failure to do so will result in a poor show. Everything you do with your business good, bad or indifferent is directly responsible to you. Not the economy, not your location in the show, not that the hotel is having construction done to the outside of the building, etc. The utilization of Permission Marketing, product mix and price point will offer you the chance to have a better show than not.

Oh I almost forgot, the Invitationals seem to work pretty good. But the two best only happen once every 2 years. Long time between fixes for steel junkies.

Ed Wormser's Invitational has been taken out of Las Vegas and will be held in conjunction with the Chicago Custom Knife Show in September 2007.

The removal of Ed's show, the SHOT Show and moving the Las Vegas show even earlier into January will probably not bode well for the 2007 Show. But as with all shows, some will have a great show and sell out, some will do ok and others won't sell a single knife.

See you at the Spirit of Steel show!

WWG
President
Arbitrage Custom Knives
 
I have never made it to Blade, but I can tell you that having been to the last 3 Blade West shows that they shouldn't be longer than 10 hours.

5 hours on Friday and 5 hours on Saturday for those that can't make it on Friday. I made it through the whole darn show in 1 hour on my lunch break! There really wasnt' too much to look at for a folder guy. Lots of nice forged blades, but not my area of real interest or knowledge. Plus. the two table holders I most went to see weren't even there when the show opened!

BAKCA shows had far more to see in the way of real custom knives, apparently to due to the deeper pockets of the general public in the Bay area. It took me about 4 hours to feel that I really made my way around.
 
Bruce Bump said:
Advertisement is so important to reach new collectors and I always blame it for the low foot traffic. Television is expensive but needed. "word of mouth" is said to be the best so it must be our own fault. BladeWest was barely mentioned here on the forums that I read. My bad too.
Click to expand...

Great to see you again!...

But hey, I tried - had a thread on Community that amounted to nothing more than hearing about Glockman's trip to the ER and Dentist!! :p Also saw a quickie on the Swamprat Forum and one that was started a few weeks ago, by Raymond IIRC?? (I remember our own STeven mentioning his planned attendence!)... Otherwise, very little for a show with Bladewest's potential!

Which leads me to asking why BFC won't consider a sticky thread somewhere, here in Customs or over on Community, allowing for the posting of local shows... For instance, the NWKC's show, twice a year, might fare better with some electronic exposure, as well as the word of mouth which is it's primary means of exposure. The same for the more maker oriented shows like the Montana Knifemaker's Show, Bladewest as we've seen, even the OKCA show could use a wider exposure...

As to the other suggestions, most all of them sound pretty accurate and meaningful - so I'll leave the other issues up to y'all... Heck, for any show within my driving range, I agree that either a Friday and Saturday or a Saturday and Sunday alone are probably best... as I do like to make these trips part of a mini-vacation! :D Especially since it's the meeting of the makers that really keeps my interest going in this particular hobby! :cool:

And to all of you guys who I did manage to see again, and a few new ones that made it into town - thanks for making it an unplanned GREAT weekend!
 
From my perspective as a collector, here's the things that go through my mind when deciding whether or not to attending a show.

Location - if it's not reasonably close & cheap to get to, I'll probably pass. Unless I have other reasons to hit that particular city. With a girlfriend who isn't terribly interested in the hobby it's nice if I can work a show into a long weekend someplace that she would enjoy as well. Paris and Napa both worked nice in this regard (though Paris almost too much so :). Places like Reno I have a hard time selling.

Makers - the more makers who I want to see that are on the list, the better chance of me going. Not that I don't like to be surprised by talent I haven't seen before though, but there need to be some names that interest me up front or I wont pony up the travel expenses.

Extras - seminars, demonstrations and discussions can be a draw as well. Personally I'd like to see more of this type of thing.

Regarding particular days - I'm with Joss on this one - Saturday/Sunday is infinitely better than a Friday/Saturday for me. I'm only likely to go to a show one day and Saturday is my preference. Collecting is expensive enough, adding an extra vacation day increases the cost even more. Would I go to a Friday/Saturday show? Sure, if I knew for certain beforehand that there was something I really wanted to buy, or could make a nice 3 day weekend out of the trip. But it'd take a lot more to convince me.
 
Hello :)

I read this thread and thought about this subject from a buyer's position...
I hope that this reply won't waste your time since I am new to custom knives, but I have a nice little collection growing...
...I have not yet had the chance to attend a custom knife show but these ideas certainly would make me want to attend those that I could even more.

1. Location x 3... I understand that many have preferred cities but not all want to fly these days... I would suggest rotating between a few locations or trying new areas. Personally, I live in eastern Pennsylvania but hate flying... Pain in the butt these days. If a major show were in Philly, Atlantic City, Baltimore, NYC, District of Columbia, Pittsburg, & maybe either Raleigh, Roanoke, or a few other cities nearby, I'd drive myself to the location. While I would not suggest these places for a winter show (well, Philly, NYC, D.C., Baltimore would be doable...), they may draw people who aren't near the West Coast. I want to go to Blade next year, ATL is not tooooo bad a drive to the south...

2. I'd suggest a show entry ticket raffle for small end items, and a ticket raffle for higher end knives and knife gear (price per ticket TBD by those involved in that show’s promotion.). If knowing that a portion of the raffle proceeds would benefit a charitable cause, I'd personally purchase more raffle tix... or you could use the proceeds from one show’s raffle to pay a knifemaker's fees/expenses to appear at a future show. Nothing like the chance to win something to bring in more people. Also anything FREE seems to attract more paying customers through the gate if they know about it ahead of time. Maybe a free wipe cloth for knives with knife dealer advertising on it (Paid for by interested custom dealers.)...?

3. Are there 'convention packages' for these show events? any kind of rate package for tix/rooms/food/seminars?

4. I'd definitely try to get the major internet custom knife dealers more involved, and maybe try to get them to donate a knife or some other type of knife/knifemaking related item to the raffle. In consideration, maybe get some of the more popular knifemakers with long lead times on orders to bump up those generous dealers a few positions on the line with their existing orders in exchange for their generosity & help in creating a better show experience for all. The makers have the real power as long as they keep it fair... :) Just a thought.

5. How about creating an internet site solely for the advancement of custom knife shows, and/ or maybe pay a little green to BF.com for some advertising on upcoming shows & events including a posted show schedule for upcoming events?

I hope that at least something in here is fresh and worth reading!

BTW How’s the fall N.Y. Custom Knife Show? Is that a large show or…? Is it worth going to NYC for?

Jaxx:cool:
 
I recently did the Chicago and as a maker the show was not great. :thumbdn: The foot traffic on morning friday was good, there was a line waiting to get in when the show opened to VIP's at 11am. At 12 pm when the show opened tot he public there was no one waiting to get in. Customers trickled in here and there but there was not the foot traffic that makers would like to see.

Saturday was like a sunday, a ghost town! At 12pm there were more makers in the room then customers.

I think that there are way too many shows!!

First there was blade in June, then the Guild show in August. The Chicago Custom show in Sept, the plaza cutlery show in October, the New York show in Nov and the Timonium show in Dec!!! and that's only 6 mos worth!

Unless you have deep pockets most collectors can't afford to go to all these shows and still have money to buy knives!

Internet dealers and makers have also put a dent in the show business. I don't have to go to a show to buy a knife form a maker, I can find it online directly from him or a dealer. No wait, no plane, no hotel and no lottery!

Back in the day you had to go to the show to see what the maker had for sale, he couldn't just email you a picture!

Here's the rope- you have to do shows to get your face and name out there, otherwise the public forgets about you.
I hope something improves.
Chuck
 
Jaxx,
You need to get to a show! Most of your suggestions ae being used! There are door prizes donated by makers and dealers. The promoters arrange special hotel rates for the show goers. You don't like to fly to a show, how much of a pain do you think it is for makers? I used to drive to blade, 18-22 hrs in a car, no thanks! The last couple of years i've flown and am there in 3hrs, can't beat it.

Attend a few shows and then let us know what you think.
 
Are there just to many shows durring the year? This could also be part of it besides so many shows being so close together or at the sametime. Wasn't Spirit of Steel the same weekend as Blade West?
 
I think the invitationals have the right model, up to a point. They only get top names, and they charge the guests a hefty sum just to get in. The one thing I'd like to change is the lotteries, but admiedly I don't have a better system.
 
How are makers selected for a given show? Do the promoters just send a bunch of fliers? Or do they put extra work in getting the 2 or 10 makers that are really going to bring in the crowds?
 
Striper28-- I DO have to get to a show!! ...And yes, I can imagine that a Knifemaker has a worse time travelling when transporting a case full of knives! Of course y'all are going to get recognition and to sell knives, we the buyers come home broke, LOL :thumbup: :D ...Do y'all recommend attending th NY CK show? (in Nov. I think)

Don't bash the internet too much!... Otherwise I'd have never bought this! (See pic)
I'm sure Striper28 recognizes this folder. I heard that it went to the BLADE show in ATL. this year, but I wasn't there... I got it through the 'net. BTW ~~~> Would make a great cigar knife entry for that contest down the forum, C.G. :cool:
attachment.php

PHOTO CREDIT: KnifeArt.com

BTW: THIS little folder has some serious Juju, my friend, good Juju when carried. :thumbup:
...And it's a sweet piece of work!!

Jaxx:cool:
 
Raymond Richard said:
Are there just to many shows durring the year? This could also be part of it besides so many shows being so close together or at the sametime. Wasn't Spirit of Steel the same weekend as Blade West?
Click to expand...

Don't know exactly if it's toooo many shows (heck, for knife knuts, can there be such a thing as "too many"?!!!)... but it's a real PITA when several happen in the same weekend or within a week of each other... As a maker, I don't see how y'all can actually go to to many as it sure takes a lot of time away from your shop, especially if it's only a hobby for you... and then on top of that is the costs involved - if you don't at least break even on a show, how many more times do you think you'll go back?

Now, if there was some way to generate more foot traffic... for instance, we locally have a very large arms collectors show periodically out here in the northwest; some 10,000 people show up over the course of the weekend. Well, the local Northwest Knife Collectors Club had a show in conjunction with the big show in October. It just so happened that I went to that show on the first weekend they did it... I didn't know there was that much interest outside the shows in Eugene or Atlanta: met several great makers there and have gone everytime since. Not only were there knife knuts going, but there was also the built in 10,000 customers who came for the other show that really made it a big hit. Since then, there have been several co-shows in this venue, but several times, there have been other knife shows scheduled for the same weekend, so the makers didn't show for obvious reasons. Since then, the local show seems to have dwindled.

Maybe the best thing would be to hold knife shows as close to a large population center as possible. For instance, the Bladewest show was held out in the boonies with minimal advertising - definitely won't get too many people to drive to a show with no other amenities than the show itself, even if they knew about it. Hold the shows in the CBD's of large cities where the resource base is highest and it's easy for people to get to. There would also be incentives for families 'cause there's other stuff to do while the family knife knut is drooling over steel!

Anyway, just my late afternoon rambling... :yawn:
 
There are things that it makes sense (financially) to do, and there are some that are not possible. A show promoter's goal is (I suppose) to make money, so they have a very narrow budget. I agree that the Bladeshow West location isn't ideal (no bank or food around, not easy to find, etc), but presumably this was selected due to lower costs than better alternatives.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top