What would make a better knife show?

Hi Jaxx,

Knife makers travelling with knives? What 4 -10 knives. Now look at what the dealers take to shows. I have to travel with two suitcases because the airlines only allow 50 pounds per bag. :D

Yea we get to sell and only have to pay generally between $400 and $600 for the privilage of the "recognition" and possibility of sale.

Someone asked about the NYC show. I have set up at this show for the last 10 years. Yes, even the last three years at the Park Central. THe hotel is nice, the room SUCKS, Horrible lighting. This will be the last year at this hotel, even if the show doesn't move it will be my last year at this location.

The March show is much better.

You do have some good ideas.

There is a web site about shows. It is www.knifeshows.com

You will notice it lists only 2 shows with dates and one of them is the Chicago show that was 10 days ago. The other is the CBKC Show (which sponsors the site).

The problem is there are plenty of good ideas and a huge lack of people who actually want to the work. There are some fantastic volunteers at shows around the country.

But for the most part artists and collectors don't want to be bothered with the business of custom knives. Table holders at shows feel getting people in the door is the responsibility of the promoter and to a degree they are correct. If not what is the $600 fee for a table in NY for? The NY and Chicago Shows both have a web site dedicated to their shows.

For the most part the main players on this forum attend very few shows. Preferring to buy off the Internet. The Blade Show is the exception to the rule, that is when the real "players" get on a plane. Most are Hammer Heads looking for the forged blades.

You will find very few actual custom knife buyers participating in the Internet forums. Compared to the amount of actual members of a forum. I think BF claims like 17,000 members of which maybe 50 buy custom knives on a regular basis. If you look at those who particpate on this forum with regularity and then check those selling custom knives on the exchange forum. This will give you a very good idea of who the custom knife buyers are.

The reason there is such a lack of participation on many of the forums, is that expressing your opinion of what you feel the truth is can get you "Gang Banged" by other members or get you banned from the forum all togther. Consequently, you get a lot of very knowledgeable members who lurk but seldom if ever participate.

You will find across the board there is very little talk about the shows, especially custom oriented shows. Why, the majority of forum members don't buy custom knives. Even with the BLade Show you will see many more posts regarding the "Pit" than actual posts about the show.

Generally this forum has the best reviews of shows and you even get photos!

Fortunately, most of the table holders at shows are not there to make money. They view it as a mini-vacation, time to see old friends, buy supplies, etc. If promoters only had makers and dealers come to shows who made money, most of the shows would be very small.

So attend some shows, makes some friends and enjoy yourself.

You do have some good ideas. Maybe you can get with Ted Merchant and lend a hand to help the knife show site.

BTW....I LOVE THIS STUFF!

WWG
Table holder at more shows than I can remember.
Giver of seminars to makers and collectors a like in two different countries!
Judge for more Custom knife competitions at knife shows than I can remember.
Lastly, President
Arbitrage Custom Knives
 
They need to be closer to me so that I can attend more of them.

I really think that two days is enough for most shows, with Blade being the major exception.

I have no solutions for the problem that knife shows are having with attendance.
 
striper28 said:
...The promoters arrange special hotel rates for the show goers.....
Click to expand...

And some promoters seem to negotiate more aggressively than others! I found out quite by accident this June that another group which was at the Waverly at the same time as BLADE attendees was being charged a "group rate" of $128. per night, while us BLADE attendees - a much larger group - were being charged $147. per night! When I asked why that was, the answer was: "Well, your rep didn't negotiate quite hard enough!" :(

*(please delete if this is OT)
 
HI Cockroach,

That isn't off topic. I have atteneded several shows here recently where I found a better deal on line for the hotel than the "show rate". Some promoters insist that you stay at the hotel or pay a premium for not doing so.

My perspective is I am staying at the hotel, the promoter is just not getting credit for the room. I have told promoters of this and advised they may want to check with the hotel to see if they can get that rate as the show rate.

Anything any one can do to keep their expenses down is good for their business. If you are a collector that just means more money in your pocket to buy knives.

WWG
Travel Consultant
President
Arbitrage Custom Knives
 
;) Just a thought for interest's and discussion's sake:

On the laziest portion of the last day of the show (Later afternoon) reserve a bank of tables for collectors to sell/trade their knives on the floor. Charge a minor fee ($50??) or don't for the priviledge. NO setup or display beforehand so no one really knows what's upcoming, save for word of mouth.

Now this might do a number of things:

The makers have all but made their last sales this day anyway, so this shouldn't tap into their market.

It will force the collectors to hang around more and not leave early. (One never knows if a cliffhanger sale might be re-tempted)

Collectors will spend more freely if they can turn over some 'product' (business terminology only guys).

Those lousy 'dealers' may even be tempted to see what's available....

Maybe even do this on the laziest portion of the first day?

From a tableholder's standpoint I can see them wince. Monies not being spent with them. From a Collector's standpoint, I see this as valid. But: who are the show promoters marketing to?

Go ahead. Find the flaws but consider the opportunities.

Coop
 
Thats a very good thought Coop. I have seen it at Dan Westlins table with ivory sales before. He posts a sign that reads something like: "New Walrus at 1:00" You should see the crowd around his table when 1:00 rolls around. It could work for makers to unveil an unseen piece late in the day or on a bigger scale with organized tables in another area. Do they sell stampede insurance?
 
SharpByCoop said:
;)....On the laziest portion of the last day of the show (Later afternoon) reserve a bank of tables for collectors to sell/trade their knives on the floor. Charge a minor fee ($50??) or don't for the priviledge. NO setup or display beforehand so no one really knows what's upcoming, save for word of mouth....
Click to expand...

I like it! :thumbup:
 
Pretty much everything has been said and I would have to agree that 1) advertising needs to be beefed up, 2) location is getting more important as fuel prices go up. 3) there needs to be more stuff going on at the shows. There could be knife throwing contests, meat cutting/butchering demonstrations, raffles for knives, boar hunts etc, and beer gardens with live entertainment.

Many of the shows I've been at are pretty dead on the second day as most of the good stuff has been sold or perceived that way by the public. They need to work on that.
 
Hi Coop,

Intresting Idea, but it won't fly. With the competition in the room you think that the makers are going to go for that. I pay $600 for a table and Joe the collector comes in and pays only $50. This would especially be true for the makers who sell out in the first 5 minutes of a show. Why not get there in the morning, let your client base know at 1PM you will be set up at one of the $50 tables. Sell out in 5 minutes and head home. THink of the increase in the profit margin.

Several years ago the Guild Show took the stance if you were caught selling knives in the room you would be asked to leave the show. They actually had board members stopping incoming people with knife cases at the show. Of course now they are happy to see anyone sell at a knife at the Guild Show.

At every show there is always a lobby or bar where collectors meet. The Chicago show was no different. Right outside the door there were couches and big cushy chairs. I saw several collectors showing knives to each other.

You table idea is a good one especially from the point of view of the collectors. Oh Good more new knives to look at.

With few exceptions there are very few collectors who approach dealers with knives that the dealer will purchase. They either have a knife that is not sellable in todays market or they want too much money for it. Letting you know that they could sell it on the forums or EBay for even more money. Of course my answer is "Then why did you pay money to get into a show where you are trying to sell it for less money?" If I buy one knife per show from a collector that is a good show from that perspective.

Keep those ideas coming.

WWG
President
Arbitrage Custom Knives
 
The way the promoters get the big names in the show is a free table and picking up expenses for the maker. So that maker attends the show basically free and gets to sell stuff, too. That's why the "lower budget" shows don't have those makers. If the maker wants to attend, the maker gets to ante up just like every other table holder.

Gene Martin
 
Hi Gene,

Which "low budget" shows are you talking about?

Also, which makers do you think get free tables?


WWG
 
Bufford said:
and beer gardens with live entertainment.
Click to expand...

Leave it to the Canadians to suggest this!:D :thumbup: (for the record, I am in favor of this too)
 
Okay, I just mentioned this in the pic thread from Bladewest...

Why don't the shows actually hire a pro photographer to take pics of just about everything? The day after a show, go to a forum like this, or on the official show's website, and post a pic of EVERY tableholder? That way, we who can't go can see all that we missed such that maybe we'll have incentive to go the next time? I know that Blade might be a little overwhelming, but Bladewest, the MKA's show in Helena, Reno, BACA... they're all small enough that the idea could fly... And heck, there are lots of photographers who'd love to do it so pricing is always negotiable...

Anyway, just a thought as I was browsing the pics posted of different shows by fellow forumites...
 
"How about a show photographer?"

A dedicated 'show hall' photographer is a good idea. But this differs from traditional.

If you are the 'show photographer' in the traditional sense, your task is to provide the makers with a chance to have quality images of their knives created before they are sold, and subsequently for portfolio or submission. A show is a very natural occurence for this opportunity, as a maker can consolodate his work and bring his best pieces to have done. Oftentimes, the knives are finished up just in time for the show, so this is a good timing opportunity.

Now, as an example, At Chicago 2005 I had an assistant run from table to table taking snapshots of the makers. I could not take any time off to do this task for a number of reasons, one of them being the amount of time it takes, and the other leaving expensive camera/computer equipment unattended. Or knives still not picked up.

I do my best at shows to promote the show on behalf of the makers AND the show promotor. I challenge you to find another show photographer besides Buddy Thomason who will take the time to post knives, and if possible, people. (One very noted photographer has a website filled with images promoting everything BUT the tens of thousands of knife photos he has made a living off of. Knives are not even worthy of mention... )

For me, I offer you exhibit A:

Chicago 2005

Napa Show 2006

AKI Show 2003

I am still working on my knife images from Chicago 2006, and I promise a gallery thread. I did not take any 'hall' photos as I was busy all two days in the studio. Still, some of us do try harder.

Coop
 
I know what you're saying: traditionally, there's a photographer there for knife pics, and given your demonstrated abilities, that's where I'd figure a guy like you would be all day long...

What I'm talking about is a guy dedicated to walking the floor for the whole time, taking pics of tableholders, awards, demos, candid shots, etc. As a tableholder, ya pay a lot of money, right? I'd think that one of the things that would help sell tables would be to include a set of pics of the tableholder and their wares as part of the table package. The holder could use it on their website to say: "See, I was there!" Also, the Official Show Website could post them to stimulate interest in next years gig...

Heck, if a phreaking Fraternity/Sorority party can hire a photog for capturing the debauchery, or the infamous Seattle-to-Portland bike ride can capture a pic of every rider so they can get a pic, I just don't see how difficult it would be for a large, established show to shell out for two photographers... One for the knives and one for people...

Just seems a no-brainer idea to increase interest in our favorite pastime... As it is, we all eagerly await the attendees with a point'n'shoot to post their after show pics and we clamour for more, right? Hell, pay for my admission, give me a halfway decent digital camera and I'd be happier than a pig in whatever to simply walk around and take pics of everybody!

Oh well, just my ought two cents worth...
 
Joe,

That's a great idea, and one that wouldn't cost much of anything. If there is anything we, as humans, love; it's attention.

Places the 'human' element front and center as well. Isn't that considered one major aspect of custom knives? You bet.

Good suggestion. :thumbup: I just took the time to elaborate on my side of the table.

Coop
 
Coop,


I will be looking for you in November at the NY CKS!


Ron
 
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