What would you call this sword shape?

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

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I have been re-finishing and restoring the hundreds of blades salvaged for Ron Frazier's shop after he died. I had been finishing his knives for a couple years after he couldn't work on them anymore to help him keep some income flowing. After his death, I was given his entire shop and contents by his widow Susie. I have his photos, drawings, and lots of info on almost every blade, but I have drawn a blank on this blade's name. I have two of these sabre short sword blades. I recall seeing a finished one of Ron's in the past but can't remember for sure what he called it. I think it was "American Rifleman's Sword" As I recall it, he said it was a longer version of a Rifleman's knife. The handle was pretty much identical to a rifleman's knife. I have an unfinished ivory frame handle that seems to be the one Ron was making for this sword. The blades are 18" with a 5" tang (I'll measure exact in a bit). Lower bevel is hollow ground.
So, I'm going with "American Rifleman's Sword" unless someone has a better name.

So, what style20250402_111609.jpg20250402_111601.jpg
 
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I have been re-finishing and restoring the hundreds of blades salvaged for Ron Frazier's shop after he died. I had been finishing his knives for a couple years after he couldn't work on them anymore to help him keep some income flowing. After his death, I was given his entire shop and contents by his widow Susie. I have his photos, drawings, and lots of info on almost every blade, but I have drawn a blank on this blade's name. I have two of these sabre short sword blades. I recall seeing a finished one of Ron's in the past but can't remember for sure what he called it. I think it was "American Rifleman's Sword" As I recall it, he said it was a longer version of a Rifleman's knife. The handle was pretty much identical to a rifleman's knife. I have an unfinished ivory frame handle that seems to be the one Ron was making for this sword. The blades are about 20" with a 5" tang (I'll measure exact in a bit). Lower bevel is hollow ground.
So, I'm going with "American Rifleman's Sword" unless someone has a better name.

So, what styleView attachment 2843842View attachment 2843843
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It is a yataghan shape, broadly speaking, so I am not sure why you would call it a rifleman's sword. Not that I would mind carrying it while toting a rifle! How about "American Yataghan"? "Amerighan"?
 
Yes, I can see the yataghan look to it. I had considered that, but it didn't sound right in my head. The handle is similar to a yataghan handle.
Maybe Ron had said, "American Yataghan" and described it as a long rifleman's knife, and I merged the two in my memory.
I may go with that name.
 
A beautiful grind. You can call it anything you like but it is like no American rifleman's knife (from patch knives to military) that I am familiar with. There were scads of 19th century yataghan profiled bayonets but if you go looking for a historical parallel, it will be a long search.


3cM93Ba.jpg
 
I don't know about yagasaki? Yagasaki would refer to where the sword tip was in a defense stance with the sword held by the right leg. (guard position by right leg - blade tip)

How about yatasaki ... not bad ... yata(gan) tip. That would be good if I put a Japanese style tsuba and tsuka on it, which I may do with the second blade. It would also explain Ron's diamond nakago shape on the blade. I have several of Ron's tsubas. I bet one fits the nakago just right. I'll check today after church. I also need to look at his handles and scales. I recall he had a Japanese handle in ebony and ivory started. Wonder if it fits this blade and one of the tsubas.

I agree there is nothing American about the shape. I was just remembering Ron saying it was "Like a Rifleman's knife". I now feel he was likely describing the handle shape he had started in ivory.

So, two very different looks for the two identical blades. I have just doubled my projects to do. You chaps are helping me figure this out by jogging my memory of things related to Ron and the hundreds of items I recovered from his shop. I appreciate it. I'll keep you posted of any progress.
 
horseclover said:
A beautiful grind. You can call it anything you like but it is like no American rifleman's knife (from patch knives to military) that I am familiar with. There were scads of 19th century yataghan profiled bayonets but if you go looking for a historical parallel, it will be a long search.


3cM93Ba.jpg
Click to expand...
Since the bayonet blades were abundant we did see a few 19th century yataghan short swords like the Cadet short sword/Rice Surprise Party swords.

Link:
www.hundredandoneantiquesgallery.com

SOLD Antique Military American 19th century 1878 U.S. Cadet Short Sword | 101antiques

SOLD Antique 19th century -1878 U.S. Cadet short sword with a sturdy Yatagan bayonet-style pattern blade cut on each face with a broad full-length fuller. A heavy cast brass handle is firmly attached and bears a mellow bronze color. There is a cross guard and intricate details cast into all...
www.hundredandoneantiquesgallery.com www.hundredandoneantiquesgallery.com

N2s
 
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not2sharp said:
Since the bayonet blades were abundant we did see a few 19th century yataghan short swords like the Cadet short sword/Rice Surprise Party swords.

Link:
www.hundredandoneantiquesgallery.com

SOLD Antique Military American 19th century 1878 U.S. Cadet Short Sword | 101antiques

SOLD Antique 19th century -1878 U.S. Cadet short sword with a sturdy Yatagan bayonet-style pattern blade cut on each face with a broad full-length fuller. A heavy cast brass handle is firmly attached and bears a mellow bronze color. There is a cross guard and intricate details cast into all...
www.hundredandoneantiquesgallery.com www.hundredandoneantiquesgallery.com

N2s
Click to expand...
Tim Graham had done a nice post ACW short sword thread at SFI and had about twelve of them lined up. The '1878' must come from the Fagan listing.
 
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