What would you like to discuss in Atlanta?

K

Kevin R. Cashen

Joined
Sep 9, 2003
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Some of you may have already seen the listing of seminars at the Blade Show this year. Due to the ammount of interest the common sense metallurgical aproach has generated, I have been given the opportunity to present it on Sunday morning at the Blade Show. I feel this is a very valuable opportunity to help make some positive changes in our field, so I would very much like for it to be a well received success. In pursuit of this end, I thought of no better way to give people what they are interested in and want than to ask ahead of time.

I am now arranging my notes and materials for my talk and would value any input on key things for me to include. Of all the metallurgical gobblety goop I have droned on about over the years which points and topics would be most likely to pull you into an Atlanta conference room to talk about? With the information I bring I would really like to help out new, up and comming makers and the consumers/collectors.

You input is appreciated.
 
Would it be going too far to have a discussion of common alloying elements and their benefits/detractors in knifemaking applications? I think a lot of folks don't know what those things in their steel do, or why it changes the way we should be heat treating one alloy vs another.
 
Kevin,

Don't misinterpret the lack of a lot of replies as a lack of interest. I think I speak for most of my fellow forumites when I say "uh, gosh, what do I tell him?) like a kid afraid to raise his hand in class...


How to determine the correct soak time and temp for a steel in different conditions (as forged, laminar annealed, spheroid annealed)

What does triple quenching do, what are better ways to accomplish those things.

Causes and solutions to grain boundary carbide formation

Cryogenics

Damascus vs pattern welded vs woots, vs plain homogonous steels, does one have a performance advantage above the others?

Are there advantages and disadvantages to cooling a steel faster than just getting under the nose? For example, can the quench rate effect carbide size? Corrosion resistance?

Should one preheat in a furnace? Does the rate at which a furnace gets to temperature effect the quality of the HT?

I'm sure most of these are lousy questions, but come on folks...

I plan to be there in Atlanta, I look forward to finally meeting you.

Nathan
 
Not that I will actually be able to make it all the way to Atlanta, but in general, your input on certain things has really grabbed my attention, and would probably play very well at Blade.

The concept of matching tools and steels; ie; simple steel for simple tools. I learned a lot listening to the heat treating lecture you gave at Ashokan '06, where you described Decalescence, and how to watch it. As well as why this method is best used for the simpler steels available to knifemakers. This gets into carbides and how to manipulate them, but for a lot of us, that's a topic for a different lecture. The concept of matching the tools at hand to the steel choice in order to make the most of both really struck me as a practical, useable, common sense sort of thing that has probably been overlooked more often than not, to the detriment and frustration of many.

A basic description of the TTT graph, what each region means, related to layperson terms is likely a decent jumping off point for another topic I personally find fascinating, compelling, and worth looking more into. That being the idea that from a pure performance perspective, properly made and tempered martensite will likely outperform it's equivilant hardness in other microstructures.

I would, of course, also like to see a discussion on hardening lines, how they get to be so pretty, and a compare / contrast between through hardening and differential hardening, the pro's and con's of each method, etc.

The demo you did (again at Ashokan '06) with the interrupted quench was a real eye popper for a lot of people. Dropping that freshly hardened blade on concrete, there were more than one sharp breaths in anticipation of the break that didn't happen.

Then, of course, there's the bendy testy thing. Your article about the merits and pitfalls of the ABS performace test, and how people can inadvertantly misinterpret it was very well worded, convincing, and makes a great lead up to a repeat of the 360* bend test, if you're feeling theatrical.

Depending on the level of the audience, many of the questions Nathan brought up would, of course be fascinating, but from a practical standpoint, I don't think of things like cryogenics and the differences between wootz and pattern welded steels to be very much connected with the words "common sense metallurgical approach". Sure, once someone gets a real solid handle on the basics, things like cryo and marquenching can help eek out those last few bits of performace left in the steel, but there's a lot of guys out there like me who are still struggling with the basics.

Finally, (like you havn't done this enough already!) a basic bibliography of reference materials, and how to get them at a reasonable price would likely be very welcome to all.


You see, this is why you've got to get that book organized. That way, you can give a lecture straight out of a chapter devoted to the topic at hand, and it makes a great plug for book sales!
 
if you could cover 1/10th of what Nathan and Dan suggested it would be worth the trip to Atlanta if I had the money
Alas, I'm broke

-Page
 
To be honest I would love to hear just about anything about the science of metalurgy. Nathan's suggestions are great. I think if a few were concentrated on it would be great. I am not sure i will be able to make it since I will be alone at the table. Ya-all stop by 21-Q and we can shoot a bit o bull.
 
All very good suggestions, I just need to distill them down to the most valuable in a 1 hour format. My challenge is that in order to have it well received I must meet three essential criteria - 1. It must stay simple so anybody can come away with gained knowledge. 2. It must be interesting to as many as possible. 3. It must be entertaining. I will not let myself forget that this is not a classroom of people who want the boring details, it is a free seminar that people can choose to attend or pass on.

One thing it won't be is a sales pitch, I had folks working on a DVD that could accompany the lecture but it never came to be, and in a way I think that is a good thing, since I can now keep the thing purely an opportunity to help out and educate the public with no ulterior motives, sales or advertising attached to it.

I already have a basic presentation put together, but I would like to have a wider sampling of what people find interesting, because I feel I cannot afford to bore anybody with this one.
 
Sounds good Chuck, I will try to stop by. And while we are at it, anybody who feels like talking about the more boring stuff I don't cover on Sunday, feel free to stop by table 4-Q for a visit and a chat.:thumbup:
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
Sounds good Chuck, I will try to stop by. And while we are at it, anybody who feels like talking about the more boring stuff I don't cover on Sunday, feel free to stop by table 4-Q for a visit and a chat.:thumbup:
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I'll definitely take you up on that one.

I always enjoy the look on faces when a young's modulus demonstration goes on. priceless.

i wanna see some discussion of how grain refinement realistically effects the end product.
 
I won't be able to make Atlanta, but I would buy a DVD on fine Belgian ales, and what about a second on Islay malts?

John
 
Unfortunately I will not be going due to the cost but one thing that has interested myself that I haven'theard a lot about would be different coatings for blades and the pros and cons of each...as well as which seem to be more resilient and why. Are some better for some steels than others..etc

Hopefully I can make up enough blades over the next couple years to go to blade but doing one at a time...I only make around a dozen or so a year right now.... it's just not feasible.
Mike
 
The relationship between grain size and hardenability.

Pick an out of the ordinary application (e.g. an adze) and then walk through the geometry/heat treatment/steel selection trade-offs and choices you would make.

A top 10 list of things that haven't been tried that would be interesting experiments or data for knifemakers.
 
I want to second the book idea. Just picking through some of your threads on here has been enormously informative. Shoot, just collecting all your threads into one place would be great! In fact, would it be a problem for you if I just went ahead and did that? I could just print out all the posts I can find, stick 'em in a 3-ring binder and have a 1st edition Cashen.:D
 
Kevin:


AcridSaint and Nathan about say it all - my only suggestion (if this is possible) is to dumb it down a bit for those of us who do not have an advanced degree in metallurgy. Steel and it's properties, and handling, are the basics of knifemaking - we should all know more about this complex subject. You write interesting stuff, I will be in the audience on Sunday. And will stop by your table.

Mike
 
Kevin, I'd love to hear just about anything you'd want to talk on, relating to the general scope of things we as bladesmiths run into. Even 5 minutes talking about the dreaded "Chart" would be good. I won't be there this year, but will be in 09, so just anything you feel is pertinant will do. You are the best person to put together the topics, because you are the one that has been answering our questions for the past several years.
I'd pay a nice fee to see a recording of your talk (done professionally). Some of the DVD's I've seen lately the quality of the picture is lacking, and the audio, background noises, well, I just won't go there.
So there you have it, put a good talk together that we can almost all relate to, and have someone record the talk. Can't get better than that!
Thanks guy,
Robert
 
I think everyone who attends the lecture should be given a Spyderco T shirt with the metal crystals on it [ No Spyderco , they're not molecules !!!] I might contribute to that !
 
Gabe Newell said:
The relationship between grain size and hardenability.

Pick an out of the ordinary application (e.g. an adze) and then walk through the geometry/heat treatment/steel selection trade-offs and choices you would make.

A top 10 list of things that haven't been tried that would be interesting experiments or data for knifemakers.
Click to expand...


The top ten list is a more ambitious task than it would first appear Gabe, I would have to spend some time thinking on it. Steel choices and why is an excellent suggestion. The grain size thing is good, but with less than seven day the sample preparation may not be possible.

For the most part I will keep it to Q&A with a mini presentation prepared for many of the commonly asked questions. That is partly the reason for this thread- to get ideas of what those question may be and have graphics ready.

One thing that I look forward to doing is to treat the attendees with a purely informational program with no ulterior motives- I will have nothing to sell in room 103 so I hope folks enjoy the absence of advertising or sales pitches. I worked a bit for this opportunity to get some good, solid and objective information out in front of the public.
 
rhrocker said:
...
I'd pay a nice fee to see a recording of your talk (done professionally). Some of the DVD's I've seen lately the quality of the picture is lacking, and the audio, background noises, well, I just won't go there.
So there you have it, put a good talk together that we can almost all relate to, and have someone record the talk. Can't get better than that!
Thanks guy,
Robert
Click to expand...

That gets back to may last post and advertising instead of objective information. Due to the work of others who wanted to see it there was almost a DVD of much of the material that would have been for sale, I am now happy it didn't happen this year. However in the future something like it may, but you can rest assured that I will they my darndest to keep the sales seperate from the information. So much of the information we receive in this business would take on a whole new perspective if we stopped and asked what the presenter, or writer could be selling. When you do this it becomes painfully evident that the vast majority of "information" we are given is actually nothing more than advertising:(. Then you will quickly realize that the conclusions presented and the whole intent behind the communication is to sway you into buying something, be it a DVD, a book, a knife or a line. Some people cannot speak a sentence, write a paragraph or shake a hand without slipping in a plug for something they want to sell. This should be a red flag for anybody looking for genuine information, and is itself some useful information about the presenter.
 
mete said:
I think everyone who attends the lecture should be given a Spyderco T shirt with the metal crystals on it [ No Spyderco , they're not molecules !!!] I might contribute to that !
Click to expand...


Hmmm, a little gift bag may draw in a crowd;). Perhaps free circus peanuts! As a joke I put them out on my table at the last show I did and they all vansihed:eek:, I was shocked at how many people actually like those nasty, nauseating, little, orange, stale marshmallow, toxic treats!
 
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