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What's so bloody hot about SEBENZA?
- Thread starter sniperboy
- Start date
Well Mitch, as a past large Sebenza owner, I will come forward and say...DON'T BUY A SEBENZA! I had one and sold it a couple months later. I thought I had the willpower to never desire one again...I "thought", which was probably a mistake! But, my whole drive to buy knives is that I like precision. And in that arena the Sebenza stands tall, IMHO. So I will be ordering/buying another in the near future. And if you buy one...that may put me a little farther down on the backorder list...so PLEASE, DON'T BUY A SEBENZA!
Sorry Mitch, I couldn't resist. ;-)
Sorry Mitch, I couldn't resist. ;-)
stjames
Sebenzanista
- Joined
- Oct 26, 1998
- Messages
- 6,465
It looks like I am fashionably late for the party
Sniperboy, to your points. The tolerances are extremely tight, with the best CQ in the business backing it up, bar none. This means a fit and finish that even detractors cant fault. The blade edge is extremely fine and tough, meaning a strong, sharp knife when you need it. The high, hollow grind allows great depth of penetration, even when compared to flat ground blades. It is one of the more comfortable to use hand tools that I own, and compares well with most other folding knives. I find the classic, simple and useful drop point profile to be as sexy as they come. The locking mechanism is simply the most proven and reliable on the market today, and no one executes it better that the originator, Chris Reeve Knives.
One thing I want to bring up while we are on the subject. A lot has been made lately about the hands on attention one receives from a custom maker when purchasing a knife from them. I can attest to this myself, having had some great experiences just this week with two that frequent this forum. But this is the same kind of attention that you can expect from Anne Reeve and the staff at CRK. They take the same pride in their work as any sole authored maker, and will do whatever they can to insure that you are happy with your knife. There have also been comments that the customization on the Sebenza is extremely limited, and that you can get whatever you want from a custom maker. Not quite true. Most successful custom makers, especially the high end ones that CRK seems to be in competition with, have their own line of knives that allow for a certain amount of customization as well. But you would be hard pressed to find one that is willing to create your specific vision with the quality of execution youd find on the CRK folders. And it certainly wouldnt be anywhere near the same price range.
With any product, ones own taste and needs will drive your decision. If you like a flat handled, hollow ground, drop point folding knife, then there really is none better than the Sebenza. Someone has to set the standard.
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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
Sniperboy, to your points. The tolerances are extremely tight, with the best CQ in the business backing it up, bar none. This means a fit and finish that even detractors cant fault. The blade edge is extremely fine and tough, meaning a strong, sharp knife when you need it. The high, hollow grind allows great depth of penetration, even when compared to flat ground blades. It is one of the more comfortable to use hand tools that I own, and compares well with most other folding knives. I find the classic, simple and useful drop point profile to be as sexy as they come. The locking mechanism is simply the most proven and reliable on the market today, and no one executes it better that the originator, Chris Reeve Knives.
One thing I want to bring up while we are on the subject. A lot has been made lately about the hands on attention one receives from a custom maker when purchasing a knife from them. I can attest to this myself, having had some great experiences just this week with two that frequent this forum. But this is the same kind of attention that you can expect from Anne Reeve and the staff at CRK. They take the same pride in their work as any sole authored maker, and will do whatever they can to insure that you are happy with your knife. There have also been comments that the customization on the Sebenza is extremely limited, and that you can get whatever you want from a custom maker. Not quite true. Most successful custom makers, especially the high end ones that CRK seems to be in competition with, have their own line of knives that allow for a certain amount of customization as well. But you would be hard pressed to find one that is willing to create your specific vision with the quality of execution youd find on the CRK folders. And it certainly wouldnt be anywhere near the same price range.
With any product, ones own taste and needs will drive your decision. If you like a flat handled, hollow ground, drop point folding knife, then there really is none better than the Sebenza. Someone has to set the standard.
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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
Went to Paragon Sports the other day (the only place that I know of that sells custom or semi-custom knives in NYC) and finally handled a Sebenza. A LEFT handed Sebenza (No offense, sinlants). All I can say is that my X-mas bonus is coming up and when my wife asks me how much that new knife of mine costs (they better have a rightie by then), I'm goin' to have to lie my a** off.
Al
Al
People that are more in the know than I'll ever be say the Sebenza is great. I'm inclined to accept this as fact.
But I doubt I'll ever get one. Nothing to do with the knife - it's because CR raised the price simply because he could (due to the demand). This was in an interview on KCotI by Dexter Ewing. Not a direct quote but I believe I've got the general idea straight.
Sure, I'd do the same thing with my products if I could, but I think there would be negative backlash if I anounced it publicly.
just my .02
JH
But I doubt I'll ever get one. Nothing to do with the knife - it's because CR raised the price simply because he could (due to the demand). This was in an interview on KCotI by Dexter Ewing. Not a direct quote but I believe I've got the general idea straight.
Sure, I'd do the same thing with my products if I could, but I think there would be negative backlash if I anounced it publicly.
just my .02
JH
- Joined
- Nov 8, 1998
- Messages
- 770
I am not a Sebenza fan. They are are good knife but not a great knife.
Well, maybe, they would be great if they didn't cost so much. They don't cut any better than knives that cost half as much.
Strong ? Definitely.....but how strong does a folder have to be ? Are all the others (at half the price) fragile ?
Pretty....nah. Light weight ....nah.
Charismatic ? Possibly. But that is a pretty intangible quality and seems to depend on a process akin to hysteria. "Everybody" says you gotta have one....so you gotta have one.
Worked for me. But, once I got my hands on it, and the euphoria wore off, I traded it off. Got several good knives in return.
Frankly, I could not feel comfortable with a knife that cost more than my first car
Just another view
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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343
Well, maybe, they would be great if they didn't cost so much. They don't cut any better than knives that cost half as much.
Strong ? Definitely.....but how strong does a folder have to be ? Are all the others (at half the price) fragile ?
Pretty....nah. Light weight ....nah.
Charismatic ? Possibly. But that is a pretty intangible quality and seems to depend on a process akin to hysteria. "Everybody" says you gotta have one....so you gotta have one.
Worked for me. But, once I got my hands on it, and the euphoria wore off, I traded it off. Got several good knives in return.
Frankly, I could not feel comfortable with a knife that cost more than my first car
Just another view
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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343
sniperboy:
I can't really give you lots of technical information as to why a Sebenza is so good. I just got my first one in the last month. I have also purchased 6 fixed-blade CR knives, one more Sebenza and an Umfaan in that time.
If you know anything about revolvers, you will probably recognize Freedom Arms as the best revolver in the world. Precision engineering and manufacture, flawless operation, strength, etc. But until you hold one in your hand and operate the action, fire some rounds (which in .454 Casull isn't super pleasant), and look at the near-perfect finish, you just won't know what is good about a Freedom Arms revolver.
So, there is, IMO, some validity to the statement that you should buy one and see for yourself (or borrow, etc.). There is something intangible that can't be quantified.
I have gotten rid of quite a few other folders that folks on this forum seem to like because I just won't use them anymore and I'd rather have the funds to buy more CR knives.
Of course, you will find folks who don't like Freedom Arms just like you will find folks who don't like the Sebenza. I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.
Mike
I can't really give you lots of technical information as to why a Sebenza is so good. I just got my first one in the last month. I have also purchased 6 fixed-blade CR knives, one more Sebenza and an Umfaan in that time.
If you know anything about revolvers, you will probably recognize Freedom Arms as the best revolver in the world. Precision engineering and manufacture, flawless operation, strength, etc. But until you hold one in your hand and operate the action, fire some rounds (which in .454 Casull isn't super pleasant), and look at the near-perfect finish, you just won't know what is good about a Freedom Arms revolver.
So, there is, IMO, some validity to the statement that you should buy one and see for yourself (or borrow, etc.). There is something intangible that can't be quantified.
I have gotten rid of quite a few other folders that folks on this forum seem to like because I just won't use them anymore and I'd rather have the funds to buy more CR knives.
Of course, you will find folks who don't like Freedom Arms just like you will find folks who don't like the Sebenza. I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.
Mike
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 75,552
DB wrote: "Cougar I will flame you on just one point. The Opinel is a full convex, not flat ground blade."
Mine is very very slightly convex ... if I hold a machinist's straightedge to it and examine it with a 10x loupe I can see definite convexity ... so I guess I have been justifiably flamed....
PhilL wrote: "Cougar, Opinels are a lot of knife for the money, but what if you don't want to carry 30 knives in your pocket? Besides they ain't cool!"
Keep the other 29 in the refrigerator and swap off the one in your pocket every time you get a fresh beer.
-Cougar Allen :{)
Mine is very very slightly convex ... if I hold a machinist's straightedge to it and examine it with a 10x loupe I can see definite convexity ... so I guess I have been justifiably flamed....
PhilL wrote: "Cougar, Opinels are a lot of knife for the money, but what if you don't want to carry 30 knives in your pocket? Besides they ain't cool!"
Keep the other 29 in the refrigerator and swap off the one in your pocket every time you get a fresh beer.
-Cougar Allen :{)
- Joined
- Jul 9, 1999
- Messages
- 3,316
LMAO! you slay me Cougar!
I like my Pinnacle. It works extremely well for me and I BALK! inside every time I think of how much CR is demanding for those Sebenza's. I don't care how well done it is, NO production folder should cost $325.00+. Just seems, well, over inflated to me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you get what you pay for. I'm not bitching about quality here, it's the price that torques my nuts.
Just my little pet peeve guys. If you wanna shell out the big bucks, it's your money and your business. Enjoy!
Hoping I don't regret this post tommorrow after the pain pills wear off,
I remain,
misque'd
------------------
So, what IS the speed of dark?
I like my Pinnacle. It works extremely well for me and I BALK! inside every time I think of how much CR is demanding for those Sebenza's. I don't care how well done it is, NO production folder should cost $325.00+. Just seems, well, over inflated to me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you get what you pay for. I'm not bitching about quality here, it's the price that torques my nuts.
Just my little pet peeve guys. If you wanna shell out the big bucks, it's your money and your business. Enjoy!
Hoping I don't regret this post tommorrow after the pain pills wear off,
I remain,
misque'd
------------------
So, what IS the speed of dark?
I too have come at the end of this thread and after reading all the nashing about this knife, I thought... well, what is it about the Sebenza, what is it that I feel or like about this knife? Well I don't really have any clever verbal impressions to give you. My feeling is that the Sebenza is probably one of the purest folding knifes made. It exists year after year as an indestructably solid WORKER. It dissasembles(takedown)like a precision tool. Few parts in design and a foolproof lock. So while someone pointed out its "nothing special" This is perhaps what I mostly like about the knife...simple and basic! It is a work of art in my opinion. But it is a knife that you will use everyday. Sometimes when I spot it laying open on the table I just look at it, the blade, the scales, the dull gray shine, glissens in the light....oh sorry...started to drift off...
You ask why not buy a custom? You ask is it worth the bucks? Let me answer... I have a $325.00 Allen Elishewitz custom I bought at a show..it is quite a knife, a work of art, top quality in every way...but you know what, I can't bring myself to use it! So in my opinion which is the better bargain? I'll be carrying my Seb when you see me and it will be very sharp indeed!
Its my main squeeze....:-}
Its my main squeeze....:-}
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 883
I had to buy a Sebenza to go with my Chris Reeve Knives hat.
David Rock
------------------
AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.
David Rock
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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 1999
- Messages
- 2,836
bartman, yeah that old custom ELish or that custom crawford is what is keeping me from snatching a sebenza, and i must admit these last few rounds of comments really startled me.. could the 325 value be.. intangiable? Kinda like saying the secret ingredient is sugr and spice?
interesting the omre and more I read this thread the more fascinated I become - how influenctial 'gut feeling' can be. Bladeforums is great.
oh yeah BM750 kinda reminds me of sebenza and the handle didnt impress al that well. didn't 'fill' your hand like a 710 or stryker does.
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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]
interesting the omre and more I read this thread the more fascinated I become - how influenctial 'gut feeling' can be. Bladeforums is great.
oh yeah BM750 kinda reminds me of sebenza and the handle didnt impress al that well. didn't 'fill' your hand like a 710 or stryker does.
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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]
My wife got me a Sebenza 1 year ago this Christmas (quite the lady!). It was the knife she had heard me long for a few times. I still carry it daily. I am an engineer and definitely of the KISS school, and this is one of the very few folders that lives by that. I only have this and one Spyderco (got it from my brother) as folders at the time, the rest are fixed blades. What do you want in a knife? It has a good point, a very fine but tough edge, the "best" locking mechanism out there, is not harmed by environmental conditions, and is easy to carry, access and use. What does that car commercial say "there are sometimes when more is just......more". If you compare ALL aspects of other knives out there, you will not find one really superior to the Sebbie, I don't think. There are a lot of other folders that beat it out in one area, but now I find it is the benchmark by which other folders are judged to me. I may not have to buy another folder, we'll see.
-Bart
-Bart
- Joined
- Dec 25, 1998
- Messages
- 7,394
I will definatley be in the minority here, but I will not pay $325 for a production knife when I can have a custom Crawford for $50 more. The Sebenza is no doubt a great worker, but at $325 I wouldn't be prone to use it. I am sure it is quite abit better than alot of knives. It has great steel, a good lock, and excellent quality control. I could buy three pinnacles one
for a user and two as spares. They might be twice as good. I think $250 is more like it. You are definately paying for the name. Just my $.02 worth.
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Dennis Bible
Knoxville, Tennessee
for a user and two as spares. They might be twice as good. I think $250 is more like it. You are definately paying for the name. Just my $.02 worth.
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Dennis Bible
Knoxville, Tennessee
I have used and abused my Sebenza in ways I would never have considered using a folder. I wanted the best and most secure work folder I could get. It has been extremly durable and the lock is absolutly confidence inspiring. The harder I work.. the harder I grip and the harder I grip the more secure the lock. The opposite of a lot of liner locks where the more presure you put on the scales the more the possibility exsists for flexing them which could?? release the lock.
Buttttt
If the benchmade (I cant remember the name) version of the integral lock which I handled at the NYCK show were available when I bought the sebenza I probably would have gone that way. I could have bought three for the price of one Sebeza. I would have used the 325. I spent on the sebenza to buy a folder that was .... dare I say it......pretty.
Alex
[This message has been edited by Boriqua (edited 11 December 1999).]
Buttttt
If the benchmade (I cant remember the name) version of the integral lock which I handled at the NYCK show were available when I bought the sebenza I probably would have gone that way. I could have bought three for the price of one Sebeza. I would have used the 325. I spent on the sebenza to buy a folder that was .... dare I say it......pretty.
Alex
[This message has been edited by Boriqua (edited 11 December 1999).]
Had to say one more thing...What is a production knife? Does it mean that they make more of them to keep up with the demand? Does it mean cloned look alikes? More or less hand work....If you wanna buy a custom one of a kind, you will probably pay more than the price of a Sebenza.(oh yea I paid only $225. for my baby SER#170; and $260. for my old large)You can find deals! I don't think the criteria of a custom vrs. a production knife has anything to do with it. I actually bought a custom McDonald for less than my Sebenza.
The production qualities of the Seb mean that each one that leaves the factory will be speced to rigid tolerances, and QC is second to none! Kinda like a guitar, custom makers still use production and have jigs and templates which allow them to repeat certain designs over and over.It also means that a part can be made in most cases better than by hand. If you want a oneof anything, you will pay much, much higher prices and wait.(but deals can also be had on most customs too) Hungry dealers at shows are a favorite spot..hehe Most custom makers have certain models and thats it. They don't produce enough product to warrant production. Remember that production is the result of success. Making 1000 knives a year vrs. 100! CRK will remain a great product and as long as he sells them at a list price of $325. Why sell them for less?(from a bussiness veiwpoint)There will always be folks who scoff at the price and sure I could buy 3 BM's for the price, but then I wouldn't get the joy of owning a CHRIS REEVE KNIFE !!
______________________________________
These opinions are not the opinions of this forum, but are the thoughts of an individual and are not meant to cause anguish to "Knife Freaks" around the world...Sincerely
Bart A. Boeckler (aka Bartman)
[This message has been edited by Bartman (edited 11 December 1999).]
The production qualities of the Seb mean that each one that leaves the factory will be speced to rigid tolerances, and QC is second to none! Kinda like a guitar, custom makers still use production and have jigs and templates which allow them to repeat certain designs over and over.It also means that a part can be made in most cases better than by hand. If you want a oneof anything, you will pay much, much higher prices and wait.(but deals can also be had on most customs too) Hungry dealers at shows are a favorite spot..hehe Most custom makers have certain models and thats it. They don't produce enough product to warrant production. Remember that production is the result of success. Making 1000 knives a year vrs. 100! CRK will remain a great product and as long as he sells them at a list price of $325. Why sell them for less?(from a bussiness veiwpoint)There will always be folks who scoff at the price and sure I could buy 3 BM's for the price, but then I wouldn't get the joy of owning a CHRIS REEVE KNIFE !!
______________________________________
These opinions are not the opinions of this forum, but are the thoughts of an individual and are not meant to cause anguish to "Knife Freaks" around the world...Sincerely
Bart A. Boeckler (aka Bartman)
[This message has been edited by Bartman (edited 11 December 1999).]
Sebenza: plain Jane for $325? Nah. For my
money, my 750 is a much better value, IMHO.
The Speedtech Synergy comes closer to tempting me to drop my spending guard. Now,
when the 750 comes out in M2....And when
the Kershaw/Onion Boa becomes available....
I guess I'm just suggesting that Chris may
have set his prices a bit high, considering
the high level of quality his competition
is offering at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.
------------------
Tom Pilotti
money, my 750 is a much better value, IMHO.
The Speedtech Synergy comes closer to tempting me to drop my spending guard. Now,
when the 750 comes out in M2....And when
the Kershaw/Onion Boa becomes available....
I guess I'm just suggesting that Chris may
have set his prices a bit high, considering
the high level of quality his competition
is offering at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.
------------------
Tom Pilotti
- Joined
- Aug 11, 1999
- Messages
- 1,111
To Cougar and all other non-believers:
Just yesterday I was walking in the woods when I was attacked by a grizzly wearing plate armor. I stepped back, hurled my 30 Opinel slightly-convex folders (costing $325) at the best, only to have them bounce off the breast plate! Then, I drew my Busse ATAK and Mad Dog Battle Mistress, and leaped at the monster with both arms flailing. Both blades snapped like crisp lilies!! Remembering that you just gave me a new, 7/16" thick Himalayan Imports AK Bowie, I lunged for the infernal creature's heart... only to have the blade accordion!!
Backed up by the demon, standing w/my heels on the precipice of hell, I remembered that I still had my SEBENZA. Seeing the hollow-ground, square-handled tool in my fist, that spawn of Satan froze in its tracks, visibly startled. (I'm pretty sure I heard it whisper fearfully under its breath, "Wasn't my dad killed by a Sebenza?") Seizing the moment, I dashed at the cowering giant, and split it in half from head to toe... with my left hand!!
Unbelievable, you say?! Just so happens that Stjames, Scarman, and a few others were walking by at the time. I believe they have pictures...
"Demonslayer" Glen
Just yesterday I was walking in the woods when I was attacked by a grizzly wearing plate armor. I stepped back, hurled my 30 Opinel slightly-convex folders (costing $325) at the best, only to have them bounce off the breast plate! Then, I drew my Busse ATAK and Mad Dog Battle Mistress, and leaped at the monster with both arms flailing. Both blades snapped like crisp lilies!! Remembering that you just gave me a new, 7/16" thick Himalayan Imports AK Bowie, I lunged for the infernal creature's heart... only to have the blade accordion!!
Backed up by the demon, standing w/my heels on the precipice of hell, I remembered that I still had my SEBENZA. Seeing the hollow-ground, square-handled tool in my fist, that spawn of Satan froze in its tracks, visibly startled. (I'm pretty sure I heard it whisper fearfully under its breath, "Wasn't my dad killed by a Sebenza?") Seizing the moment, I dashed at the cowering giant, and split it in half from head to toe... with my left hand!!
Unbelievable, you say?! Just so happens that Stjames, Scarman, and a few others were walking by at the time. I believe they have pictures...
"Demonslayer" Glen