I hear a lot of talk on here about how great 1095 and CV steel are but I have have tried both and don't think they are that great. I would much rather have a blade made out of a good stainless link 154cm, Ats-34 or even 440c that don't rust and that will hold an edge much longer and they are not hard to sharpen for me. So what is so good about carbon steel?
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Whats so great about 1095 Steel
- Thread starter jth250
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Lots of folks here like an old fashioned knife that will develop a patina just like paw paw's knife did. Also, it's probably easier to sharpen 1095 on any old rock compared to those "edge retaining" stainless steels.
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I rarely bother trying to sway the opinion of people whose minds are already apparently made up, but as Christian said - 1095 is fairly easy to sharpen (even in the field), and takes a very fine edge. In my opinion, these are the first and foremost things a blade steel needs to do. Compared to those functions, "stain resistance" is pretty far down my priority list. And I've never had a one of my 1095 knives rust. Patina? Yes. Rust? No.
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It's very easy to sharpen and holds it long enough, it is tough, the patina looks great, small pits on the surface of the steel, added to the patina give it an old tool aspect. Scratches on the blade will blend in with the patina, looking even better while gaining a character.
I personally love that old look on a knife. A knife with a tale...
I personally love that old look on a knife. A knife with a tale...
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This even by itself is a great reason to use 1095 instead of stainless. While a slightly used stainless knife looks better than a knife only staring to patina, a heavily used stainless displays all the scratches it gets, while patina will hide them.
I agree that 1095 will take a fine edge, but i don't agree that it will take a finer edge than 154cm or 440c. The 1095 might take the finer edge quicker but just a little more time sharpening and the stainless will take just as fine of an edge. I have some knives in 154cm that will whittle hair. Take the time it takes you to clean and oil the 1095 and put that into sharpening the 154cm and you could have the same fine edge and it will hold it much longer.
IMO, it's less about better and worse and more about choosing the steel that gives the properties you're looking for.
Carbon steel is very tough and under hard use, will tend to dent or roll the edge instead of chipping or fracturing. It is also finely grained and will take a very keen, non-toothy edge and many prefer that for wood working. Lastly, carbon steel is easy to hone and resists forming a stubborn wire-edge burr during the honing process in same way that some comparable stainless steels will.
IMO, carbon steel is somewhat comparable to some fine grained stainless steels like 440A, 420HC and Sandvic 12C27 when both are heat treated in the 58Rc range. Both sharpen up easily to a fine edge. However, when hardened in the 56Rc range, there is more of a difference in that these stainless steels tend to hold a burr when sharpened. Opinel's Carbone and SAK's Inox and Case's Tru Sharp are good to compare in this way. All 3 are in the 56Rc range and the Opinel Carbone is head and shoulders easier to hone.
"Above" this range of stainless, you tend to either get longer edge retention at the cost of greater brittleness and larger toothier carbides (preferred by some for cutting flesh and rope). They are also harder to sharpen, which is off set by the greater availability of diamond stones.
IMO, carbon remains very relevant. It is preferred by whittlers because it is easy to maintain a very keen edge. It is preferred by many bushcrafters and tradesman because it is tough and very chip resistant.
A lot of people prefer stainless for EDC use for good reason.
Many people prefer carbon on traditional knives because it is the most traditional choice. Putting stainless on a traditional is sort of like putting fuel injection in a Chevy small block engine. I am very sure that heaven's V8s have carburetors and their slip joints, 1095.
Great info here:
http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/knife-steel-knowledge/
http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/produ.../knife-steel-knowledge/different-steel-types/
Carbon steel is very tough and under hard use, will tend to dent or roll the edge instead of chipping or fracturing. It is also finely grained and will take a very keen, non-toothy edge and many prefer that for wood working. Lastly, carbon steel is easy to hone and resists forming a stubborn wire-edge burr during the honing process in same way that some comparable stainless steels will.
IMO, carbon steel is somewhat comparable to some fine grained stainless steels like 440A, 420HC and Sandvic 12C27 when both are heat treated in the 58Rc range. Both sharpen up easily to a fine edge. However, when hardened in the 56Rc range, there is more of a difference in that these stainless steels tend to hold a burr when sharpened. Opinel's Carbone and SAK's Inox and Case's Tru Sharp are good to compare in this way. All 3 are in the 56Rc range and the Opinel Carbone is head and shoulders easier to hone.
"Above" this range of stainless, you tend to either get longer edge retention at the cost of greater brittleness and larger toothier carbides (preferred by some for cutting flesh and rope). They are also harder to sharpen, which is off set by the greater availability of diamond stones.
IMO, carbon remains very relevant. It is preferred by whittlers because it is easy to maintain a very keen edge. It is preferred by many bushcrafters and tradesman because it is tough and very chip resistant.
A lot of people prefer stainless for EDC use for good reason.
Many people prefer carbon on traditional knives because it is the most traditional choice. Putting stainless on a traditional is sort of like putting fuel injection in a Chevy small block engine. I am very sure that heaven's V8s have carburetors and their slip joints, 1095.
Great info here:
http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/products/strip-steel/strip-products/knife-steel/knife-steel-knowledge/
http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/produ.../knife-steel-knowledge/different-steel-types/
Some things remain popular not because of what they are, but because of what they are not. A steel like 1095 is not the latest hot lick cutting edge steel. Yes, there are many new steels that will out cut it, and may well be tougher. But what 1095 is, is a very time tested and reliable steel that makes a lot of sense for a traditional knife. It's plenty tough, as testimony from millions of military issue old TL-29's and Camillus MK2's would give. It's easy to sharpen and maintain in the field or work place. You can, if need be, touch up a 1095 blade on a smooth piece of creek stone, and it will hold that edge pretty darn well. The old 1095 is a hundred years old, but is still a viable choice for a cutting tool. Most industrial cutting tools and scrapers are made from it. You could say that 1095 is the Smith and Wesson model 10 of the steel world.
The old model 10 came out in 1899. In 1905 it was chambered for the new .38 special round. For the next 80 years it was THE police issue handgun. It's now long out of favor for all the popular Glocks and SIG's, and HK's, and Berretta's. But in the hands of some who knows how to shoot it, an old model 10 is still a very viable defense tool. It still works well at it's intended task, just like the old 1095 steel. For someone who is interested in buying an old style traditional pocket knife, by virtue of what they like, the newest wonder steel of the month is not needed. The buyer of a stockman, or sodbuster, or jack, is wanting a time proven artifact, just like his grandpa maybe used. Most likely, his grandpa back on the farm got by very well with an old 1095 bladed jack. But then, his grandpa never knew how under knifed he was.
Today, all the qualities that made 1095 a popular choice for knife blades is still valid. The steel ccompamies, and the knife companies will continue to come out with steels for the steel snobs out there, but are they really Better? Will that UPS box be more difficult to open with a nice sharp 1095 blade than the wonder steel of the month? Probably not. But if I am carrying a traditional knife, I want a traditional steel. As for toughness, I think of all those Marines who fought their way island to island across the Pacific, and all the 1095 Kabars hanging off webbed belts. As my old scout master would say, 1095 would do to go up the beach with.
Carl.
The old model 10 came out in 1899. In 1905 it was chambered for the new .38 special round. For the next 80 years it was THE police issue handgun. It's now long out of favor for all the popular Glocks and SIG's, and HK's, and Berretta's. But in the hands of some who knows how to shoot it, an old model 10 is still a very viable defense tool. It still works well at it's intended task, just like the old 1095 steel. For someone who is interested in buying an old style traditional pocket knife, by virtue of what they like, the newest wonder steel of the month is not needed. The buyer of a stockman, or sodbuster, or jack, is wanting a time proven artifact, just like his grandpa maybe used. Most likely, his grandpa back on the farm got by very well with an old 1095 bladed jack. But then, his grandpa never knew how under knifed he was.
Today, all the qualities that made 1095 a popular choice for knife blades is still valid. The steel ccompamies, and the knife companies will continue to come out with steels for the steel snobs out there, but are they really Better? Will that UPS box be more difficult to open with a nice sharp 1095 blade than the wonder steel of the month? Probably not. But if I am carrying a traditional knife, I want a traditional steel. As for toughness, I think of all those Marines who fought their way island to island across the Pacific, and all the 1095 Kabars hanging off webbed belts. As my old scout master would say, 1095 would do to go up the beach with.
Carl.
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I think the primary draw for 1095 and CV is not that it is a better steel per se than many stainless steels. At least for my mundane cutting needs, I'm not really able to tell the difference in cutting or edge-retention between CV and Tru-Sharp once I have them equally sharp.
But it seems to be preferred by some for the fact that it will develop a patina with use (or with accelerated methods in patina formation) and those people like the look of a well-used knife. It's also part of the traditional nostalgia. Some like their traditional patterns to use the traditional materials.
I'm somewhat steel agnostic. I carry and use both types. But then I have the odd behavior of trying to keep the CV steel relatively shiny and patina-free, so I guess I'm buying those knives because I like the pattern and handle type offered, and the steel type is immaterial.
But it seems to be preferred by some for the fact that it will develop a patina with use (or with accelerated methods in patina formation) and those people like the look of a well-used knife. It's also part of the traditional nostalgia. Some like their traditional patterns to use the traditional materials.
I'm somewhat steel agnostic. I carry and use both types. But then I have the odd behavior of trying to keep the CV steel relatively shiny and patina-free, so I guess I'm buying those knives because I like the pattern and handle type offered, and the steel type is immaterial.
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See my post above about why I rarely bother to engage with people whose minds are already made up. By your responses so far, it seem clear that you're not looking for an open-minded discussion that is actually going to go anywhere productive, or broaden your understanding. Instead, you're simply looking to repudiate every point that is brought up regarding why many traditionalists continue to prefer carbon steels like 1095. It doesn't make any of those points less valid amongst a large number of users, however.
Bottom line - use whatever you want, and whatever you prefer. You clearly prefer stainless steels, so use what you like. It's as simple as that.
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As a collector, I want diversity in my patterns, handle materials, and blade steel. My having ats34, 1095, 440c, 420hc, D2, CV, and maybe others, helps keep the diversity alive. But, for any carry knife that I have, I like ease of mantenance. I believe we are offered today blade steels that are considered stainless steel, (or close to meeting that description), that have a good blend of stainless steel and carbon steel properties (with good heat treating and all being considered in). So, in that case, as a carry tool, I prefer such a stainless. But, everyone has their own likes and dislikes, and wants and needs... so I see the availability of all the different steels as a good thing 
Btw... I like how Queen offers basic 1095 on some basic models, some D2 for their standard models... and a steel like ats34 for some Schatt & Morgan knives. It's nice to see such an old company that makes very traditional knives, using mostly traditional methods, and yet be able to use different steels to make them all... adding spice to life
Btw... I like how Queen offers basic 1095 on some basic models, some D2 for their standard models... and a steel like ats34 for some Schatt & Morgan knives. It's nice to see such an old company that makes very traditional knives, using mostly traditional methods, and yet be able to use different steels to make them all... adding spice to life
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For me it is simply an aesthetic that I enjoy. I like the way a developed patina looks. When people try and argue with me that their super steel is better, I just smile, nod and agree with them, then continue with my inferior knife anyway. Because it pleases me.
Paul
Paul
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And that right there is the answer. Use what you like, and don't get worried about what other people like.
I agree with that.