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whats so special about s30v??

thanks Carl. i'm still curious though. when did all of this knowledge become common to all blade makers. did the Japanese masters know anything about Austenitic and martensitic or austenite and bainite or pearlite. oki understand they might not have had a lot of stainless steel back int he day but you kno what i'm getting at. i'm not trying to be a smartass here. i'm just now realizing how much goes into the making of a piece of steel and the properties of it. it seems nowadays if you wanted to go make a knife or a sword it would be pretty easy since you can buy all of this great steel. did the old smith's just use trial and error or did they have this knowledge of steel make up. i'm sure there must be a book that would tell me the history huh?

--KJ
 
Satrang,
Thanks for the information you have submitted in this thread on D2. It is accurate information. As a metallurgist I have been directly involved with D2 for 30 years, selling and tech recommendations. Your information is right on the mark. Keep going !
 
Concerning not tempering martensitic stainless hot because it gets brittle, so does HSS in general. M2 is much more brittle when tempered as a HSS then when tempered lower as ran by Benchmade, however which one makes a better cutting tool? The embrittlement comes from carbide precipitation which is lower temperature with stainless because chroimum diffuses far faster than the heavier alloying carbides. Simply because something reduces an element of toughness does not mean it automatically make a worse blade as noted. On an ironic note concerning S30V, Wilson's hardening of S30V is soaked hotter than most (above 2000F) and he isn't getting a lot of durability problems even though the impact toughness is likely lower with S30V austenized at 1950 vs 2050 F. There is far more to edge stability than impact toughness.

-Cliff
 
We interrupt this lesson series to point out that the steel being so exhaustfully and academically disected was also the FIRST steel ever created from the git go for use in the cutlery field.

We now return you to our previously recorded treatise entitled METALURGY 101!

(eventually the "Star-Spangled Banner" will play and we'll all find ourselves staring at a test pattern, I'm certain!!;) )
 
Larry S. said:
We interrupt this lesson series to point out that the steel being so exhaustfully and academically disected was also the FIRST steel ever created from the git go for use in the cutlery field.
Click to expand...

S30V, according to Dick Barber was designed more specifically so that knifemakers could heat treat it at lower temperatures, the ELU probably care little for that. There are a number of tool steels which are designed to hold very sharp edges and are commonly therefore used for industrial knives and for the same reasons work very well for cutlery in general. There are also lots of stainless steels which have been out before S30V which many have argued make very good knives, see Verhoeven on AEB-L vs 440C and Landes on 440A vs S60V for a very different approach to knife steels than Crucibles high carbide promotion. Sandvik makes a number of stainless steels for cutlery which have the same focus as Verhoeven and Landes viewpoint.

-Cliff
 
Larry S. Great comments!

The bad part of the forums is regardless of the expertise of the poster there are the people that dominate certain topics with their wisdom. The metallurgical staff's of the steel companies got together and discussed this topic in Oregon. You will see us post very rarely on the forums anymore due to the fact that those that live on the forums tend to drag the conversations down to argumenative and waste of time pissing matches. Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of the forums browsers are good people looking for information, but it's not worth the time to defend everything they post. Since all of us attend the shows on a regular basis and participate in metallurgical seminars, the forums have lost interest.

I'm curious. How many people who have posted over 10,000 times have been to either the Oregon show or one of the Blade Shows? Blade forums should sponsor and pay for anyone reaching that milestone to one of those shows if they haven't been there.
 
Satrang said:
You will see us post very rarely on the forums anymore due to the fact that those that live on the forums tend to drag the conversations down to argumenative and waste of time pissing matches.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the "us" part, but you have a history of spreading rumors and gossip, not actual facts, you have been called on this more than once and openly admitted it. Many of the arguements made by supposed metallurgists (all anon postings) defending S30V are in fact contradictory to statements made directly by other metallurgists when the steel was first being promoted and in fact these statements are in print in Crucible's handbook, and online in various PDF documents. Lots of the statements also contradicts information in standard tool steel reference guides. When this is pointed out the individuals don't tend to defend their arguements. I would be curius about all of "you" who discuss the topic have extensive experience using knives in various steels at various geometries. It is also curious that you are not familiar with work done on the topic such as Landes and Verhoeven who have studied it extensively and contradict the position put forth by Crucible.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, You don't know who "us" are because you don't take the time to go to shows and actually talk to anyone. You have internet testicles. Stand in front of the industry at a show like I have and put your reputation and ass on the table like a man. You obviously have the time to go to a show. With the amount of time you have posted you could have circumvented the earth by now. You need money? I bet I could make a few phone calls and get your butt to a show free. At over 20,000 posts, Blade Forums should at least pay for your carpal tunnel surgery.

As for the fact issue you are addressing. I backed off that topic with Company B due to professional reasons. I could have pushed it farther but unlike you, I know when to quit. Company B never said they didn't buy the grade in question, just that it wasn't the miracle grade.

Next time I talk to Verhoeven, I'll tell him you think his work is good. I'm sure he cares. You just confirmed why the "us" is boycotting BF.
 
I don't believe s30v is any better or worse than many other knife steels being used today. The steel is just one of the important variables in making a good knife.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828

In 25 years we won't even be using steel knives, IMHO.

We will be using a cutting tool similar to this. It will cut anything very easily and never need sharpening. It will be very small and powered by a 10year life battery. Don't view this link if you have a quesy stomach as it shows laser knives in use in surgical situations.

http://www.clinicon.com/diamondlaser.html
 
Who on the forums thinks Cliff should do a presentation at one of the major shows (Blade, Oregon, Blade West)?
 
Satrang said:
Who on the forums thinks Cliff should do a presentation at one of the major shows (Blade, Oregon, Blade West)?
Click to expand...

Run a poll.

BTW I submit that in 25 years we will still be using steel knives.
 
Satrang said:
Who on the forums thinks Cliff should do a presentation at one of the major shows (Blade, Oregon, Blade West)?
Click to expand...
I've got $10 bucks to kick in for airfare :D
 
Larry S. said:
We interrupt this lesson series to point out that the steel being so exhaustfully and academically disected was also the FIRST steel ever created from the git go for use in the cutlery field.
Click to expand...
That's not exactly accurate. Both Sandvick 12c27 and VG-10 were also formulated as cutlery steels and they were available in knives before S30V was around.
 
You just confirmed why the "us" is boycotting BF.
Click to expand...
Really? My experience is that "us" stays away from special interest consumer forums because academics and businessmen seem to get really annoyed at people who, you know, actually use the product.

On a less smart-alecky note, there are a number of reasons that industry types don't get involved in public user forums to much extent. I assume you're smart enough to know that, so laying it off on a single user, as an argumentative weapon, is unfair and sleazy.
 
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