What's the advantage of a 2x72" belt grinder over a $60 one?

Well if I was happy with any of my knives Ide probably quit making them. My day will come when im truely happy with my work but I set my personal standards real high. I look at some of the makers here showing knives I only dream I had the tallent and equipement to do it all myself as they do. But for now ill keep struggling and take all the advice from these master knife makers here. This is one i finished the other night.
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AcridSaint said:
Highly recommend visiting a local maker.

Cap
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You know, I'm totally new to this and pretty much just being a sponge and reading as much as I can, but I'm getting kind of amazed at how willing the knife making community is to help newcomers. You said visit a local maker. How would you broach the subject? You really think someone would be willing to take the time to show someone a few basics? I'm amazed!
 
Hi Zippin - I've never met a knifemaker yet who would not let me visit their shop. Small time makers like me and some very famous makers. I called Scott Slobodian out of the blue several years ago and said "Hey, I'm coming to California for a few days and I would kick myself if I didn't at least ask you to meet up". Not only did he have me into his home, show me his work and answer my questions for six hours, he bought me and my wife lunch and Barbara gave my wife an engraving lesson. He is now amongst a large group of makers who I consider my friends.

I met Alan Folts in Greenville about four years ago and not only did he teach me how to make knives better, I've been working out of his shop for three + years. I have my own shop and still make the drive to spend time with friends and learn new things. If you are polite and sincere, I think most knife makers will let you come by and pick their brains while they work.
 
Zippin take these guys up on any help they have to offer. Where I am up here its like a big hidden secret to some and they wont let you see there shop for fear you might start making better knives and become as good as they are. Overall most knife makers are like acrid says. I run into a few snobbs sorta speak. I listen to everything im told by the master makers here and appreciate every bit of advice. kellyw
 
cotdt said:
Then I can crank out 5 knives every hour.
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cotdt said:
Thanks for the interest and I will show them when I am happy with the results. Which I hope will be soon.
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Just an observation...If you worry a little less about how fast you can work, and a little more about working to the standards you're setting for yourself, you're more likely to get to the point where you're happy to show off what you're working on more quickly.

I'm by no means fast, but as I concentrate more on the quality of my work and on learning better ways to work, I am slowly getting to the point where I can get the same quality put out in less time. I do know some folks who are just grinding maniacs. One local guy I know who works in a production sword shop can grind a 12" dagger from a profiled blank to 400 grit in about 5 minutes. I've seen him do it. and they are nice blades for sure. That said, it's all he does, 8+ hours a day, 6 days a week. This shop is 2 guys who put out 800-1000 finished swords a year so speed matters for them and they can invest in the equipment to help with that. For most of us though, concentration on quality will pay more dividends.

I'll be honest, I've never really used anything but a 2x72 because I built one as step 1 in starting to make knives in my own shop. My grinder with it's table probably weighs 400lbs and doesn't move without some pretty severe coercing. One of the biggest differences between a full-fledged 2x72 and a cheaper machine is mass. Mass reduces vibration and keeps the machine from moving while you grind. A quality machine allows you to concentrate on the work you're doing rather than concentrating on working around the shortcomings of your equipment.

-d
 
I started on a crapman 2x42 and used if for a while and made quite a few knives on it. Enough that I burned the motor up and replaced it.

After trying a 2x72 though, it was a world of differance. My first 2x72 was a coote and it's still a great machine. The differance is weight for one thing. I've discovered that most machine tools that do any sort of cutting, belt grinders included, it helps to have a good bit of mass to them. When I switched from the 2x42 to the 2x72 I didn't up my speed that much, if any. What I did do was find that it was easier to get consistant grinds and I wasn't as tired at the end of the day. Also I got more accurate. The Coote, and my new KGM both have step pullies to ajust the speed. I used to start with about an extra inch of blade and after grinding it'd be the rite length. I also saved a little bit of time hand finishing because I had a machine that was stable enough and could be run slower to use some higher grit belts to good effect.

The 2x72 is generaly cheaper to operate, last longer, and is generaly easier on the operator than a cheap grinder. It won't make you a better knifemaker, but it will take some minor obsticles out of your way.

When you get rite down to it, a belt grinder is nothing more than a powered file. A 2x72 is akin to a Niclson black diamond file, where the cheap ones are like the china files, they'll work, just not as well. If you can find a maker near you and try one out you'll be a believer.
 
I made 8 knives using a HF 1x30 grinder, and I did accomplish making knives, they were just not very nice looking. They weren't too bad, but I was limited in grits to 80 and 120, without spending a ton on higher grits, so that's what I left them at.

Now with my 2x72, I've only made one knife on it, but it's sooo much faster and easier for me to grind because I have more surface area on the belt, so it lasts way longer, and I have grits up to 400, so immediately (after the learning curve), aesthetically my knives made a huge leap.

I spent quite a bit on the grinder, but it will pay off (eventually) in the belts saved compared to the 1x30.
 
gilgsn said:
Hello,

What do you guys think of this one?

http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/product_info.php?cPath=659_775&products_id=687

Gil.
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The contact wheel is 6 3/4", that is probably too small for most knives. Single speed 3500 SFM is about right if you only get one speed - but the ability to slow it down to 1000 SFM for finishing would be nice. 2 1/2"X48" belt - is that a common size? 1/2 HP is not enough. Twice that is very borderline. $425.

However, it is a nice turn key system. If it had an 8" wheel, 1 HP and a couple speeds it would be okay.

I think a KMG with a 10" wheel, flat platen, extra tool arm, four speed pulleys is about a $1000 if I recall correctly. And you still need to bolt it to something, and attach and wire a motor which some folks don't feel comfortable with.

There isn't an ideal system out there is there? This is one of those cases where you gotta spend some coin to get a good tool.
 
zippin44 said:
You know, I'm totally new to this and pretty much just being a sponge and reading as much as I can, but I'm getting kind of amazed at how willing the knife making community is to help newcomers. You said visit a local maker. How would you broach the subject? You really think someone would be willing to take the time to show someone a few basics? I'm amazed!
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I just attended a Hammer-in here in Visalia Ca. One of the things I took away from it was ABS Mastersmith Greg Neely telling us that it was our job to educate the public. Very interesting considering other professions try to retain "trade" secrets.
 
I've tried one, and while it would be nice to have for some things, I've never got one, personaly I think the money is better spent on something like a Coote or KMG.
 
i did the timer dance not long ago and found it takes me 4 hours to grind one razor blank out (thats not handled not honed just the blade to a satin finish)

so 5 an hour is well a bit over the top
BTW i have been making knives about 6 years and had a KMG for almost 3 of them
 
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