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I was replying to your original post. Did I miss the part where you called AUS8 crap steel? If I did, you can assume I ignored it.
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whats the big deal?
- Thread starter bladeboss
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I was replying to your original post. Did I miss the part where you called AUS8 crap steel? If I did, you can assume I ignored it.
My big babies love the taste of Cesium in the morning, my they have grown up so fast!
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My big babies love the taste of Cesium in the morning, my they have grown up so fast!
:thumbup:
vwb563
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And that's why there are so many different types of knives out there. Different strokes for different folks !
The answers to your questions are not simple ones. A lot of members of this community are what you would call " steel snobs" and many are snobs in general. A lot of hypocritical information in this thread.. so apparently people have a problem buying an aus8 knife for 50$ when there are s30v knives for around the same amount, fair enough but then why are these same people willing to buy knives way more expensive with the same s30v?
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+1. A well heat treated AUS8 blade is a pleasure to use, and sharpens very well. Takes a very very fine edge
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I call buying something of better quality over something of lesser quality for the same price ... smart. Not a snob, as you would say many of the people on this forum are.
That's not what I was saying and you know that. But ok go ahead and pick apart what I say and see what you want in it.
AUS 8 is built down to a price as opposed to up to a standard. It is a medium Carbon steel that is sorely lacking in Vanadium, Molybdenum, and Tungsten. It does not have the fine grain structure associated with powdered steels. So you get what you pay for. Premium steels cost more, but deliver more satisfaction IMHO. I agree that super steels are harder to sharpen, but edges last longer. Wear resistance in is wear out (no free lunch).
jdm61
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AEB-L/13C26 has an INCREDIBLY fine grain structure equal or finer to most of the PM steels (some call it "stainless 52100"), no vanadium, molybdenum or tungsten to speak of that I know of and a medium carbon content (60%, about the same as 5160) and it is very good WHEN HEAT TREATED PROPERLY. What it may not have is the abrasion resistance of some of the high alloy steels, but it is one of the go to steels for the customs kitchen knife guys who expect the kind of sharp edge on a knife that most of us would never dream of.
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Jeez. Bladeboss, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here when it comes to the trolling thing but it does seem that some of the threads you make as well as the way you choose to word some things seems to cause a lot of hostility in a normally very subdued community.
I think this has more to do with AUS-8 being used mostly on cheaper quality knives than a hate for AUS-8 itself. It's an okay steel, but nothing special and kind of dated. The same could be said for 420HC and even 440A (although calling 440A an okay steel might be pushing it). The issues with AUS-8 have more to do with the quality of the knives being made with them vs the price they are sold for than anything. Companies like Cold Steel and SOG make extensive use of AUS-8 in their product lineup, and charge the equivalent of other companies which are using superior steels such as VG-10 or S30V. I think this gives AUS-8 a bit of a bad reputation.
Tsujigiri
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Having an intelligent and discerning eye for quality is not the same as snobbery. As Brian says, going for higher quality at the same price is just good sense. As for the higher priced S30V knives, most of these offer higher quality or better handles than a Buck Vantage Pro. Steel isn't the only thing that's important. Obviously, an S30V Sebenza offers better tolerances and materials than a Vantage Pro, which justifies a higher price. I think the knives you have in mind are AUS-8, Taiwanese-made, middling quality ones that cost around $50. It shouldn't come as a surprise that many people don't think knives with both cheaper steel and lower quality are worth it.
It's not an issue of snobs saying that AUS-8 is a terrible steel like you seem to be suggesting. It's more careful consumers deciding that it makes no sense to buy cheap steel and low quality when they could get more expensive steel and higher quality for the same price. I see nothing hypocritical there.
I also noticed the posts went downhill rather quickly. Reminds me, gotta pick up some more popcorn in the morning.
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I've found it's much like some 1095 that I've handled, feels buttery smooth on the fine stones, takes a "Screaming Jay Hawkins edge" the only issue if you can call it that, is that outside of softer stuff, the edge degrades rapidly.
jdm61
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IMO, the problem with some of the 1095 out there today may be that the production companies leave it softer than they need to. I leave 1084FG at 60 or so and have never had any problems, but some companies seem to say that they have some super secret world beating heat treatment recipe that leaves 1095 at 57. If heat treated properly, 1095 austenized at 1475F can have an as quenched hardness as high as 66RC. Thats a point higher than my 1084 and is a level of hardness that a pretty fair number of even the high tech stainless steel users can only dream of and i don't see why you need to drop it 8-9 points of hardness (or more) IF you have done it right........but that is a BIG if, no? IF 1084 works just fine at 60RC or 59 at worst, then why shouldn't 1095 work fine at 60 or even 61RC?
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What about companies that blatantly copy designs and sell them for $100 more? For instance, the Black Talon is an obvious copy of the Civilian, using a lesser steel (San Mai Aus-8 or VG-1?? vs. VG-10 in the Civilian) a liner lock (vs. the backlock of the Civilian) and a useless pattern of serrations (as compared to those of Spyderco, Kershaw, Benchmade or even Victorinox) .The Cold Steel website puts the MSRP at $399.99 while Spyderco's website puts the MSRP of the Civilian at $279.95. What accounts for the difference in MSRP when the Black Talon is merely a less sophisticated clone of the Civilian?
AUS-8 is a fine steel. Spyderco used it for many years. It takes a nice edge and holds it for a decent amount of time. It is easy to resharpen in the field using simple sharpening tools. In my experience it is a tough steel that tended to deform rather than chip, making it a good choice for long term work in a real world environment.
The thing is, as in many other aspects of life, progress came along and with it, the advances in cutlery steel that continue today. Some people want the best steel, and for each person, what is best is different. The true measure of a knife is not just what the blade steel is, but the whole package, and does it fit the needs that the user has?
I would not poo-poo a Spyderco or Benchmade or Cold Steel knife in AUS-8. I won't pay a premium price for it though as I stated above. It is human nature to pay a higher price for better options, and for a lot of knife people, there are better options than AUS-8 out there.
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I actually prefer my CS Voyagers in A8 over all of my other knives with their uber-steel for DAILY use. I'd rather be able to strop an A8 blade a couple times at the end of the day and get it back to shaving sharp than put up with the effort of putting that same edge on a 3V blade.
Now if I'm using a knife for a particular chore that requires a lot of cutting and I want better edge retention, the 3V blade might be a better choice. But for daily use I much prefer a blade I can make wicked sharp with minimal effort, even if it wont survive skinning a giraffe without having to touch up the edge.
As far as the price point on an A8 knife...well it depends on the knife. A knife without a good handle is as useless as a car without a good driver, in my opinion. Providing we're talking about several decent steels, I'd say the blade steel is a pretty minor factor in whether a knife is worth $50 or $150.
Now if I'm using a knife for a particular chore that requires a lot of cutting and I want better edge retention, the 3V blade might be a better choice. But for daily use I much prefer a blade I can make wicked sharp with minimal effort, even if it wont survive skinning a giraffe without having to touch up the edge.
As far as the price point on an A8 knife...well it depends on the knife. A knife without a good handle is as useless as a car without a good driver, in my opinion. Providing we're talking about several decent steels, I'd say the blade steel is a pretty minor factor in whether a knife is worth $50 or $150.
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AUS-8 is very good steel for general use when given a good heat treatment. Many of my favorite knives are made with it, in fact. A good balance of corrosion resistance, impact resistance, and edge retention (about moderate in all categories) and very easy to resharpen--all while remaining very affordable. So while not in the "premium specialty steel" category it provides very good end user performance for what it contributes to the cost of a knife (stock purchasing, blanking, machining, and heat treatment)