What's the difference between your knife and the big companies?

J

johnnyKnives

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Sep 21, 2008
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I've been looking at the knives that a lot of you make and they are great. I know that some people make make a knife here and there, pass it down, etc. But what separates knives made by "normal" people and someone like Buck? Is it all marketing? They've been doing it longer? Mass production?

If you buy the same steel and make a great knife, isn't it the same as buying a knife from one of the big names?
 
Buck doesn't offer knives in the same steels as custom makers, like 52100. Or the same knives.
 
If you have ever held a custom knife you would know. The attention to detail is much greater and the quality for that one knife made by a custom maker is much better because it may have been the only knife made that week, month and Year in some cases. The fit and finish is something else to look at.
 
for me its mine, I made it, and if I send it out for Ht it should be just as good as any factory knife probably better even though I'm a noob
 
In my opinion, no it is not the same. Can you call up a company and ask them to make a knife to your design? Usually no. Although Buck does have a custom shop. Also when you buy a mass produced knife, that is what you get. As Rusty says the fit and finish is usually much higher. A production company is interested in volume, how many knives can we make in a certain time period and what is the most efficient way to produce them? One maker forging a blade, then grinding and heat treating, then finish grinding, then hand rubbing, then spending the same or more time working on the guard and handle, all to the customers request, cannot be done with mass production and is sometimes not that efficient. BUT, you get a knife that is made the way you want it, the maker put a lot of sweat and time into it, and is something special. Go to a knife show and see the difference.
 
Just because it's "custom made" doesn't make it better than a factory knife and on the other side some factory knives are far better than some custom knives. Is the quality of workmanship, materials,esthetic appearance, and a combination of these or lack of them. The fact that a knife is hand made doesn't give it a value. How well is has been made and of course then looks, does. So if you are saying I will never get my knives to look as good as some of the factory knives then you should also be able to fit it into the price range it belongs in. "Forget it" you say "i'm already ahead of that!" Well lah dee dah. You have a trapped audience and okay sell for all you can get, but this isn't going to get you to the place where your work is recognized to be very good. And hey, your wife, Dad. or hunting partner certainly aren't the people to ask. I'm saying for you to get out there look at other makers work honesty. If there are known makers work there, for sure have a look at their work. You don't need to man handle their work, just loook hard and long and don't hesitate to pass along compliments that are well deserved. And if you ask for a quick assessment of one of your knives, do expect that their remarks will be low key. Perhaps it would be much bettrer to ask about only one aspect of the knife. Find places like THe Knife Network and check out their sub titles like "workshop" . Does your knive "make" it here all the way? Get as much exposure and participation as you can at knife shows. Don't get involved in what you can do unless someone is asking you but try to concentrate on something you need help with. Most makers will give constructive critizim, but don't always expect the low key answers.
So what is the difference from a factory knife to a custom? When you know enough you see it, it's very visible, but certainly making a list to ckeck off won't do it.Frank
 
I'll take a cnc'ed part over a hand finished part any day for consistency and quality control. Plus, youd use the machines which have cooling to them so the heat treat isnt wrecked in final finishing. Machines do better tolerances more consistently.

The benefit is to being able to order a custom blade to the customers specifications. There is no inherent benefit to the quality of a custom blade. It might, or might not, be better than a production blade.
 
A custom knife is custom.

It is the expression of that maker's creative potential combined with that maker's attention to quality.

Do you want the best performance of a single person, or the average of 8 people?

And that is just one easy difference, between a one-off custom guy and a mass market production company....

Don't even get me started about the differences between production companies, or what the definition of 'production' is.....

Define what you want, and find the entity that will satisfy your requirements.

Marion
 
Well, in the case of some factory knives, mine cost less.:D
 
No BS here, seriously, the custom knives generally offer a better value over the mass produced knives.

I have a Buck 119 that I've had for about 15 years that I used to use as a skinning knife. I didn't know much about knives or about cutting performance. I thought it was a good knife, it worked okay.

I also used to drive a 1981 Volkswagen rabbit. I didn't know much about cars or driving performance. I thought it was a good car, it drove okay.

Today I drive a 260 HP 6 speed manual Nissan Maxima SE. I think it is a lot more car than that old VW. I also skin deer with a very thin hollow ground skinning knife in hard D2. It drives circles around that old Buck. You can't buy production knives made that way. The HT and grind don't lend themselves to mass production. If you want a truly excellent knife, you're going to be hard pressed to find one like that at Walmart. But if you're like 90% of the knife users out there, you'd never know the difference.



Edit:

When I hold that old Buck knife in my hand today, I see a bunch of flaws. The grind is uneven, the edge is too thick (and soft), the knife is too clunky, and the finish is washed out. For three times the money you can get ten times the knife with a custom.
 
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Nathan the Machinist said:
No BS here, seriously, the custom knives generally offer a better value over the mass produced knives.

I have a Buck 119 that I've had for about 15 years that I used to use as a skinning knife. I didn't know much about knives or about cutting performance. I thought it was a good knife, it worked okay.

I also used to drive a 1981 Volkswagen rabbit. I didn't know much about cars or driving performance. I thought it was a good car, it drove okay.

Today I drive a 260 HP 6 speed manual Nissan Maxima SE. I think it is a lot more car than that old VW. I also skin deer with a very thin hollow ground skinning knife in hard D2. It drives circles around that old Buck. You can't buy production knives made that way. The HT and grind don't lend themselves to mass production. If you want a truly excellent knife, you're going to be hard pressed to find one like that at Walmart. But if you're like 90% of the knife users out there, you'd never know the difference.



Edit:

When I hold that old Buck knife in my hand today, I see a bunch of flaws. The grind is uneven, the edge is too thick (and soft), the knife is too clunky, and the finish is washed out. For three times the money you can get ten times the knife with a custom.
Click to expand...

Nathan we are not worthy :rolleyes:. but ya i think you hit the nail on the head there.
 
nullack said:
I'll take a cnc'ed part over a hand finished part any day for consistency and quality control. Plus, youd use the machines which have cooling to them so the heat treat isnt wrecked in final finishing. Machines do better tolerances more consistently.
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It might be true in theory, in practice the fit and finish of custom and semi-custom knives are much higher. I have 4 Benchmade 710's, and the swedge isn't lined up right on half of them. The other half came to me with the blade off-center. The out-of-box sharpness also tends to be lower in factory knives, I think the norm is 80 grit grinding belt for sharpening.

The hardness in custom knives also tend to be more consistent, as they are often rockwell-tested throughout the heat treating process. You can adjust your process for each new batch of steel.
 
To have tolerances that far out it simply cant be machined using CNC. CNC'ed parts are held to very tight tolerances.
 
nullack said:
To have tolerances that far out it simply cant be machined using CNC. CNC'ed parts are held to very tight tolerances.
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The tolerances held are less a function of if the machine has a computer numerical control, and more to do with the machining strategy, tooling quality and fixturing. A mill that repeats to .0001" is of little utility if the part can move or flex .020".

CNC, done properly, can create parts of great precision. And lots of mass produced parts are made utilizing CNC machinery of one sort or another. But most mass produced parts are not shining examples of precision.

I would wager those Benchmades with the funky swedges were ground on automated machinery, but were either loaded wrong or the machine was not properly calibrated, or some aspect of the process was not being controlled.
 
I dont need to add my 2 cents. Personal pride and satifaction is only a small percentage of why they are better. The list of why they are better is huge.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
The tolerances held are less a function of if the machine has a computer numerical control, and more to do with the machining strategy, tooling quality and fixturing. A mill that repeats to .0001" is of little utility if the part can move or flex .020".

CNC, done properly, can create parts of great precision. And lots of mass produced parts are made utilizing CNC machinery of one sort or another. But most mass produced parts are not shining examples of precision.

I would wager those Benchmades with the funky swedges were ground on automated machinery, but were either loaded wrong or the machine was not properly calibrated, or some aspect of the process was not being controlled.
Click to expand...
AND you still have to assemble those parts. My limited experience with Benchmade is that there stuff from 10+ year ago was better than some of the stuff they put out now, but with that said, a lot of their stuff is built to a different price point than say the old Brend folder or the orginal AFCK.
 
If you have to ask you probably will never get it. Custom knives are not for everyone, I would venture to say they are for but a very small percentage of knife buyers. Try this ask your knife salesman at wherever you buy your Buck what steel it is made out of? what hardness he would guess it currently is? and what he recommends sharpening it with?
A knife is a tool, some demand and can appreciate the best the rest go to Walmart.
Chris
 
Besides what has already been stated above by people much more knowledgeable than myself here is my two cents.

I enjoy looking at paintings sometimes. I'm not what you'd call an art snob but I enjoy something that someone created. Many pieces of art are available in posters or prints. ALthough the image is the same, the feeling you get from looking at it is not. It's a mass produced piece. It will still fill space on your wall and you can frame it to look nice, but it will never be a the same as a handpainted piece.

Pride of ownership. Fit and finish. Being made to my specs of materials of my choosing. These are some of the reasons I enjoy custom knives.

Factory knives are fine. There is certainly nothing wrong with them for most applications. I carry several factory blades. I just enjoy my hand made knives much more.

SDS
 
There is also a larger variations on styles. For example, if I wanted a knife that looked like it was made in the civil war era, there will be maker to buy from.

Just because production is automated, doesn't mean it was cnc milled with a high tolerance like the way Nathan showed in one of his earlier threads.
 
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