what's the max legal barrel length for handguns...

And if you're thinking that you might someday need to keep a heavy weapon loaded on the car seat beside you for self-defense against humans, you're living in either a dreamworld or a warzone.
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Bingo. In Florida a law was recently passed that no longer required a person to attempt to retreat if confronted outside their home, before using deadly force. What this means in a practical sense is that if one stops at 7-11 and another person attemmpts a violent robbery, the first person may stand his ground and fight (prior to this he would have had to attempt to escape). Still, I wouldn't want to test the statute by shooting at someone 50+ yards with my AR15 when there are other options.

I would suggest that AmadeusM spend some time and money on real training rather than musing on unlikely scenarios. Here are a few suggestions:

www.tdiohio.com
www.gunsite.com
www.rogers-shooting-school.com
 
Good discussion.

I have some follow up things I wanna ask:

As far as shooting let's say an intruder in your home at a relatively short distance, with something with let's say a 20 inch tube, is there any appreciable difference in tissue destruction from the following:

.30-30 vs. 7.62 x 39 vs. .308 vs. 30-06?

FMJ vs. softpoints vs. hollowpoints?

Light bullets vs. heavy bullets?

Thanks.
 
AmadeusM said:
Good discussion.

I have some follow up things I wanna ask:

As far as shooting let's say an intruder in your home at a relatively short distance, with something with let's say a 20 inch tube, is there any appreciable difference in tissue destruction from the following:
.30-30 vs. 7.62 x 39 vs. .308 vs. 30-06?
FMJ vs. softpoints vs. hollowpoints?
Light bullets vs. heavy bullets?
Thanks.
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The answer is: shotgun. Then a pistol with PD ammunition like Remington Golder Saber etc. Modern personal defense ammunition for 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP is designed to transfer as much energy to the target as possible.

Using a rifle for home intruder defense would be my last choice. Any one of the rounds mentioned is going to continue on its path a loooong way if you miss. Through your walls and the neighbors. You're liable for whatever damage your shots cause.

If you're worried about personal defense from attacks by bad guys, shot placement and controlled follow-up shots are more important than a hot loaded magnum round. The consensus on most firearm sites is that the only advantage to using something like a S&W 500 magnum for personal defense is that if the bullet misses your assailant, the muzzle blast will set him on fire.
 
i know the .500 S&W would also make an excellent club thats one big mother let me tell ya i guess ya appreciate that weight when ya fire it though.

the only reason i would carry one of them for SD is if i was in bear country, certainly not for normal scenarios.
 
AmadeusM said:
...to still be classified as handguns and thus legal to carry on the body (edited: not the body so much) or inside the vehicle loaded?

Does this vary from state to state?

Thanks.
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A handgun has no limit on barrel length regardless of state.

If you chop the barrel on any shotgun below 18 inches, regardless of whether it started "life" as a pistol gripped "cruiser" or a standard stock, you've commited a felony instead of creating a handgun. A short barreled shotgun is a NFA weapon requiring a $200 transfer tax while a short barreled pistol gripped shotgun is an AOW and only requires a $5 transfer tax.
 
Amadeus, my friend, forgive me if I am wrong, but you're starting to sound like a person who is fairly new to guns, and is being dazzled by all the cool hardware at the gun store, like a kid in a candy shop. You need to reread the advice you've been given in this thread and try to take it to heart, because you seem to be headed in a direction that could lead you to a world of hurt.

You do not want to use a rifle for defense against intruders inside your home. Please go back and read that last sentence again. If you shoot someone with any of the rifle rounds you listed at 20 feet, the bullet will go clean through the target and into the next room, apartment, or house. If you miss the intruder completely, the round could go through the wall and hit someone as much as a mile away. You will then be arrested for manslaughter, and rightly so. For home defense, get yourself a handgun or a 12 gauge, but save your rifles for the range. You're still risking overpenetration, but not to the ridiculous degree you would be with a .30-06.
 
craigz said:
Amadeus, my friend, forgive me if I am wrong, but you're starting to sound like a person who is fairly new to guns, and is being dazzled by all the cool hardware at the gun store, like a kid in a candy shop.
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VERY true. :) Add to that a very vivid imagination. But, neither have ever led me to do anything illegal or dumb.
 
.30 caliber with a 20" tube inside your home will be very similar to holding a flash-bang at arms length, and just as enjoyable.
 
a .223 will likely penetrate similar or less than 00 buckshot through normal household materials. This and many other reasons is why i use an AR-15 for home defense.
 
victory -

As far as penetration, you are correct - if you're comparing frangible .223 rounds to 00 buckshot. But if you're using regular ball or another type of non-frangible ammo there's no comparison. The .223 keeps going and going . . .

Here's a terrific real world test site that compares just what we're talking about:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

But you have lots of options with a shotgun aside from 00 buck. When you move to #1 shot, the shotgun becomes, IMO, a better choice. While retaining lethality, penetration is a third less than either 00 or frangible.
 
unless ya agree with the folks who say use nothing smaller than '00'.

i too like the 5.56 for SD use but i do live in a rural area and use soft point ammo, just gotta be carefull were ya shoot, if ya cant do that ya have problems with anything.
 
panella said:
victory -

As far as penetration, you are correct - if you're comparing frangible .223 rounds to 00 buckshot. But if you're using regular ball or another type of non-frangible ammo there's no comparison. The .223 keeps going and going . . .

Here's a terrific real world test site that compares just what we're talking about:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

But you have lots of options with a shotgun aside from 00 buck. When you move to #1 shot, the shotgun becomes, IMO, a better choice. While retaining lethality, penetration is a third less than either 00 or frangible.
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If the box-o-truth teaches us anything, it's that these arguments are foolish. so a handgun penetrates 6 internal walls, a shotgun penetrates 9 and a rifle penetrates 12. What's the difference between dead and dead again? Either one is going to make it into your kids room. The trick is to hit your target and know your backstop.

Secondly, i prefer the ability to shoot through concealment and body armor. And the ability to do it 30 times without reloading.
 
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