What's the minimum fixed blade size for an effective chopper?

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I have a lot of large blades. Generally prefer to use/carry them over a hatchet, unless weight is a big concern (and then I may forego even the hatchet and just grab my folding saw). Generally prefer 11"+ for any heavy chopping, but 9"+ blades can do well enough in my experience, especially if the geometry is dialed-in.

I'm a big fan of Bussekin, so most of my experience is with them. I know they have a ton of beefy knives in the 7-8" range that are used to chop to some extent. I have a B8 that does well for its size. The Res-C handle, stock thickness, and tang design give it a decent amount of forward weight that allows it to punch above its class, but it doesn't really compare to the larger blades.

It would be interesting to run a comparison to see where different blades rank against my Fiskars hatchet. I haven't tried that directly in the past, I just know I always tend to grab a blade instead. :rolleyes:

Have a Skrama too. I think it's an excellent tool with great geometry out of the box, but with the thin edge and relatively thin stock I tend to use it primarily on green wood.
 
I think you're asking way too much from one tool. By the time a knife becomes big and heavy enough to be a decent chopper (relative to a hatchet) it is going to be terrible for bush-crafting, slicing, and game prep.

Also, by the time a knife is big enough to effectively chop, you're in the same weight range as a GB SFA (eg. An Esse Junglas with sheath is 33oz, an GB SFA with sheath is 34 oz). Add a 5 oz BRK Mini Aurora to the SFA and you're a mere 6 oz heavier, but carrying a much more capable and efficient set of tools. Also, almost all of the weight of an axe is in the head, which is why to me a small axe makes more sense than a hatchet. The little bit of extra handle weight makes for a much more efficient chopper.

In the end, the ability to chop comes at a pretty high weight cost, which is why I simply carry a 4" knife and just don't chop anything when three season backpacking.
 
TrainedBullets said:
I think you're asking way too much from one tool. By the time a knife becomes big and heavy enough to be a decent chopper (relative to a hatchet) it is going to be terrible for bush-crafting, slicing, and game prep.

Also, by the time a knife is big enough to effectively chop, you're in the same weight range as a GB SFA (eg. An Esse Junglas with sheath is 33oz, an GB SFA with sheath is 34 oz). Add a 5 oz BRK Mini Aurora to the SFA and you're a mere 6 oz heavier, but carrying a much more capable and efficient set of tools. Also, almost all of the weight of an axe is in the head, which is why to me a small axe makes more sense than a hatchet. The little bit of extra handle weight makes for a much more efficient chopper.

In the end, the ability to chop comes at a pretty high weight cost, which is why I simply carry a 4" knife and just don't chop anything when three season backpacking.
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This is a good post to counter-balance, appreciate the perspective. I agree, the ability to chop comes at a high weight cost, no matter what you carry. That said, I usually don't mind the extra approx 2 pound tax that I pay to bring along a chopper of some type.
 
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I have found the Condor Pack Golok to chop just as well as a normal hatchet. It does a good job chopping. It is part of the reason I haven't messed with hatchets much in the last 5 years although now I am looking at a really small hatchet specifically for splitting kindling. Don't know..... probably just keep with the big knife approach as I am not going to be cutting down large trees (>4") with a hatchet or a knife unless it was a life and death situation. If I'm car camping, I can take along an axe, larger saw, and lots of toys. Depends where I'm going and how much dead wood is available. The ESEE Junglas has always appealed to me, but I just can't see buying it.
 
Oh you can totally split wood with a machete, for sure. It's great for smaller diameter stuff that's not too gnarly. For anything difficult, just use the machete to help you make gluts (wooden wedges) and insert them into a starting line scored by the machete.
 
Was going to start a thread, but did a search and found this thread instead. Looking at buying myself a nice machete and mid sized axe in the new year. Need to clear a track through some bush into a pond for duck shooting season. No massive stuff, mostly just be a bit of scrub as it's overgrown a bit over the last five years or so.

Is there any machetes that have saw blade teeth on them?

Only machete I have owned was a Gerber Kukri. Which was crap. Had to take it back after using it for half an hour, the cutting edge was broken and bent like it was made of tin. So would definitly will be using my budget.
 
A further thought about the "weight tax for chopping tools" discussed above. Once you've decided to pay the weight tax and bring a chopping tool of some type, you might as well bring the tool that punches above its weight class and gives you the most versatile tool for the weight (if you don't want to bring several different tools). I was thinking about my Condor Golok last night, which is kind of a behemoth at 14" blade and 21" OAL, weighs 1.75 pounds, 2.2 with sheath. But good grief, the ESEE Junglas 1 with sheath is 2.1 pounds and 16" OAL. A GB small forest axe is 2+ pounds with sheath, and 19" OAL. If you want something that can chop down trees and chop through logs, clear brush like a machete, dig, cut stuff like a large knife, and limb branches with a single hard swing, the Golok is a pretty solid tool. When you put the weight/size in perspective, it's right there with some of the other high efficiency choppers and it lets you do a lot of things, pretty well. Not even trying to argue that the Golok is the "best" all-purpose tool, I have no idea, just know that mine is a good all-purpose tool for the weight. My only beef is it's a little longer than I'd like, when strapped to the pack. But I really like the weight and 14" blade length.
 
bobshoy said:
No massive stuff, mostly just be a bit of scrub as it's overgrown a bit over the last five years or so.

Is there any machetes that have saw blade teeth on them?
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Have you thought about a machete AND a saw? My admittedly limited experience is that the sawbacks on some machetes are pitiful performers. Id rather have a good Tramonita or Imacasa or similar, and a light folding saw like a Fiskars, or a Bahco.
 
19-3ben, I have. And sometimes carried that combo. What I have found is that in the Pacific NW where I live, I don't often need the machete as much when backpacking. The best all-purpose combo I have settled on recently: a small stainless fixed blade around 4", a larger mid-sized carbon steel blade for chopping, and a folding 9.5" silky saw. This entire combined setup, sheaths and all, weighs 55oz, basically 3.5 pounds. If I take the Junglas, it gives me machete-like capability when needed (though clearly not as good as my 18" Tramontina), hatchet-like performance when needed (and can actually keep up with quality small hatchets like the Fiskars x7 and GB), and knife performance. This 3-tool combination for me is the most versatile, all-purpose set I have yet found.

When I want to go lighter, I just lose the Junglas and leave it home. If I wanted to go heavier on the chopping and machete performance, I'd take the Golok because it gives me both.

Here's the interesting thing that's behind this thread, and a good example is that GSO 8 from Survive Knives that I referenced in the OP: I'm wondering if I can get the chopper knife portion of my setup a little smaller than the Junglas 1, but still good enough. Wondering if I can drop down to say an 8" chopping blade and 13" to 14" OAL knife, say the Junglas 2 that just came out, or the GSO 8 that will be in production soon. If I could get by with a slightly smaller large knife, it'd be worth it.
 
19-3ben said:
Have you thought about a machete AND a saw? My admittedly limited experience is that the sawbacks on some machetes are pitiful performers. Id rather have a good Tramonita or Imacasa or similar, and a light folding saw like a Fiskars, or a Bahco.
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I'd say that almost all sawbacks on machetes are pitiful, they are usually there for a tacticool zombiekiller look but are more likely to cause harm to the user than to actually saw anything. A best you may be able to notch with it. You won't be able to use the machete to split wood by batoning or to use it two-handed like draw knife or similar either.
The Tramontina 14-inch bolo may be a good option for anyone expecting to do some brush clearing as well as some hatchet-like chopping. It chops way above its weight due to the weighted tip. The ability to do a high-speed snappy chop is far more important than pure mass. Energy is mass times speed squared after all, so a blade that is half as heavy but impacts at twice the speed delivers twice the energy. The bolo is scary fast and will fly though an inch of hardwood in a single blow, or chop through two inches in two or three blows (I'm talking hazel, oak or ash saplings or branches here - green vines just disappear). You will need to adapt the blade grind and the handle to your liking as any Tram is a half product that the user is supposed to finish. The only hurdle is its length when packing it, not the weight as it is far lighter than the heavy choppers (less than 400 grams without a sheath so there is a lot of margin to pack a 4-inch belt knife and a light folding saw for the same total weight of one large chopper...).
 
I've made several chomper (compact-chopper) with 6.75-8" blade length. This W2 7.5"/12.75"oal/210z packs a lot of chopping power - albeit short reach. It designed as a multiple purposes/utils. e.g. pinch grip for high control cuts, such as food prep.

Full swing with 3 fingers grip quickly end-chopped 2x4...

 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Oh you can totally split wood with a machete, for sure. It's great for smaller diameter stuff that's not too gnarly. For anything difficult, just use the machete to help you make gluts (wooden wedges) and insert them into a starting line scored by the machete.
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You can. But I would be careful holding the piece to be split before wacking it with a machete. Use a stick to hold it please. From this point of view, a big knife works better as you probably aren't likely to just wack at it holding it, rather a batoning type effort.

Every saw edge on a machete that I have looked at or used sucked to use as a saw. I think it's more of a sales thing for folks thinking.... oh, I can get both a big knife an a saw with the same tool.
 
maximus83 said:
Here's the interesting thing that's behind this thread, and a good example is that GSO 8 from Survive Knives that I referenced in the OP: I'm wondering if I can get the chopper knife portion of my setup a little smaller than the Junglas 1, but still good enough. Wondering if I can drop down to say an 8" chopping blade and 13" to 14" OAL knife, say the Junglas 2 that just came out, or the GSO 8 that will be in production soon. If I could get by with a slightly smaller large knife, it'd be worth it.
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I suppose that depends on what "good enough" means to you. Personally, I like blades in this size range as a versatile, all around tool. Many don't and say that, by trying to be useful for everything, they comprise too much on everything and aren't really good at anything. This is a very valid criticism. The confusing thing is the fact that we're both right... for our needs.

It all comes down to how much specialized capability and performance in various tasks you're willing to give up in the name of versatility. Where does that sweet spot lie for you, personally and how do different design elements play into fine tuning that? That's something that needs answered through your own experimentation and experience doing the tasks In question. In other words, you'll have to try one, maybe several, to know how you'll feel about this sized knife and what elements you'll want in "The One" if you do end up liking them.

I'll try to get some pics of a few of my personal favorites around this size later today.
 
hexenjager said:
...It all comes down to how much specialized capability and performance in various tasks you're willing to give up in the name of versatility. Where does that sweet spot lie for you, personally and how do different design elements play into fine tuning that? That's something that needs answered through your own experimentation and experience doing the tasks In question. In other words, you'll have to try one, maybe several, to know how you'll feel about this sized knife and what elements you'll want in "The One" if you do end up liking them.
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I agree with this. The choice is personal and based on your experience. You have the experience Maximus to make judgements.

My sense is that you (Maximus) have already tried a number of things and your experience is basically "the Junglas" works for you, but you don't want to carry it in the woods. That is where I am, but with the Condor Pack Golok. You keep mentioning the regular Condor Golok as an excellent chopper but it's too long to carry. Well, there are better choppers but you loss some versatility in terms of the smaller stuff you might wack at with the regular Golok. So, it boils down to how much you actually chop with a knife away from home, camping or whatever...

The answer for you may well be a small hatchet intended for chopping as they carry easier than a large knife I think but have limited versatility.

I think the sweet spot is about a 10" blade with a fairly thick blade stock which can still be used as a knife, albeit a bit awkwardly from my experience. Adding length and usually weight generally increases the choppy-ness of the tool. Go back to something like the BK-7 and you loose the blade weight but have better function as a knife.

I deal with this much the same as you and the result is I seldom carry the bigger chopper outside of car camping or where I know I need or will be chopping with a knife (usually just for fun). I go with a smaller saw, but not so small as say a Vic SAK One-Handed Trekker. They're okay for cutting off a walking stick, squaring up a pole at a camp site or cutting a few small limbs. Beyond that, I want a larger saw and don't carry the One Handed Trekker because it is such a weight in my pocket that will usually rub on my leg hiking. For me there is no one combination of knife or cutting tools for every occasion. I try to use my brain and consider just what I might actually need that day or a couple of days.
 
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22-rimfire said:
You can. But I would be careful holding the piece to be split before wacking it with a machete. Use a stick to hold it please. From this point of view, a big knife works better as you probably aren't likely to just wack at it holding it, rather a batoning type effort.

Every saw edge on a machete that I have looked at or used sucked to use as a saw. I think it's more of a sales thing for folks thinking.... oh, I can get both a big knife an a saw with the same tool.
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Well, yeah, that's kind of a given. Don't do a dumb. And definitely sawback machetes are garbage. It's theoretically possible to make a good one, but not likely that anyone will ever end up doing so because it'd have to cost more than a good saw and good machete purchased separately.
 
schwep said:
I'd say that almost all sawbacks on machetes are pitiful, they are usually there for a tacticool zombiekiller look but are more likely to cause harm to the user than to actually saw anything. A best you may be able to notch with it. You won't be able to use the machete to split wood by batoning or to use it two-handed like draw knife or similar either.
The Tramontina 14-inch bolo may be a good option for anyone expecting to do some brush clearing as well as some hatchet-like chopping. It chops way above its weight due to the weighted tip. The ability to do a high-speed snappy chop is far more important than pure mass. Energy is mass times speed squared after all, so a blade that is half as heavy but impacts at twice the speed delivers twice the energy. The bolo is scary fast and will fly though an inch of hardwood in a single blow, or chop through two inches in two or three blows (I'm talking hazel, oak or ash saplings or branches here - green vines just disappear). You will need to adapt the blade grind and the handle to your liking as any Tram is a half product that the user is supposed to finish. The only hurdle is its length when packing it, not the weight as it is far lighter than the heavy choppers (less than 400 grams without a sheath so there is a lot of margin to pack a 4-inch belt knife and a light folding saw for the same total weight of one large chopper...).
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Bolos, Parangs and Goloks are three machete shapes/styles that excel at that and my preferred types for this kind of chopping and clearing due to their weighed tips or front sections :thumbsup:
 
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