What's tougher a scandi or convex edge?

[Joe Duder]

I'm sure this has been discussed and played out on this forum... I'm sure a lot of it depends on a lot of different factors. But I saw this vid today and what Virtuovice said made a lot sense

What do you guys think? Argument starts at 7:54.

http://youtu.be/p7FOCepMbFw

Thanks. Duder

 

[XiaolongJackson]

I think the problem with his argument is that for both edges to be ground at the same angle (in his diagram, he depicts the scandi ground blade as having a full scandi grind), the scandi ground blade would have to have a thicker stock, which would probably make the knife overall a lot more durable.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

I haven't tested this and I can't watch the video because I'm at work, but I would guess that the convex edge would be stronger. Being zero ground, a Scandinavian grind would be weaker generally because it would be thinner.

Just a guess.

 

[dkb45]

If the convex knife is a full convex (appleseed grind) then it will be stronger. If it is basically a scandi that was convexed, then I'm not too sure.

 

[BePrepared]

I have an appleseed grind on all my hard use knives that are uncoated. On my coated ones, i have as close to a zero convex edge as possible

 

[Joe Duder]

I think a convex grind is tougher. In my experience, my scandis roll/chip a lot more than my convex blades do, doing the same exact tasks. However, the blades were not the same steel nor were they the same blade geometry, but close. I'm sure the fact that they are different thickness and steels has a lot to do with it.

 

[Cypress]

Didn't watch the video... Define "stronger".

Almost any engineer will tell you that round surfaces are stronger than flat or square surfaces. My vote goes to convex, but alas, I am not an engineer.

 

[Joe Duder]

Didn't watch the video... Define "stronger".

Almost any engineer will tell you that round surfaces are stronger than flat or square surfaces. My vote goes to convex, but alas, I am not an engineer.

I was asking if it was tougher. And by tough I meant- strong enough to withstand adverse conditions or rough or careless handling. Pretty much the google definition of the word.

Cool avatar btw.:thumbup:

 

[Cypress]

Thanks!

Convex for sure. Bonus material behind the edge makes it strong like bull.

 

[HwangJino]

Easily convex.

Traditional Katanas are appleseed convex, and they easily go through human pelvis.

 

[Mikael W]

I think a convex grind is tougher. In my experience, my scandis roll/chip a lot more than my convex blades do, doing the same exact tasks. However, the blades were not the same steel nor were they the same blade geometry, but close. I'm sure the fact that they are different thickness and steels has a lot to do with it.

A scandigrind can be either flat, hollow or convex.

A Mora is sometimes made with a very shallow (almost flat) hollow grind.
A Bark River scandi is made with a convex grind.

The geometry can be made in various thicknesses, and as Cypress said, more metal behind the cutting edge is tougher.

I agree with Joe that a new scandi like a Mora roll/chip on harder materials, but when convexed as in Virtuovice second drawing, it becomes a lot tougher!


Regards
Mikael

 

[MatthewSB]

I think people have different ideas of what constitutes a Scandi or Convex grind.

If by Scandi grind you mean a straight angle all the way to the cutting edge, and the Convex is a full convex like Bark River does, then the Convex is definately stronger. The Convex has more steel closer to the cutting edge, where the Scandi tapers to zero at a set angle.

 

[Accelerator]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between a Scandi grind and a Saber grind?

 

[marcinek]

If, by toughness you mean material behind the edge, then the answer is flat. Or flat scandi.

Draw a vee. Draw a convex edge that fits inside it. Draw a flat ground edge that fits inside it. Those two will have the same edge angle. The flat will be thicker. It has more material behind the edge, despite what any convex edged knife maker has said.

Its geometry. Geometry doesn't lie.

 

[marcinek]

 

[marcinek]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between a Scandi grind and a Saber grind?

Really pretty much the same. All depends on where the ground part of the blade begins.

 

[Accelerator]

^^^Thanks for the clarification. I was afraid that there was something that I wasn't seeing.

 

[Big Mike]

What's tougher a scandi or convex edge?

So much depends on metallurgy, edge geometry and heat treatment that any generalizations are meaningless.

You have to test actual knives to determine which one is tougher, in my experience convex beats a zero scandi edge most every time.

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the difference between a Scandi grind and a Saber grind?

Typically a Saber grinds primary bevel begins half-way up the blade, with a secondary bevel creating the actual knife edge.

A Scandi's bevel usually starts lower on the blade and terminates at the edge, sometimes a micro bevel is employed.




Big Mike

 

[Joe Duder]

I guess what I meant to ask was- If you had a scandi blade and a convex blade, same steel, same edge angle and thickness at the cutting portion, and you performed the exact same tasks (we'll say feather sticking and power cuts into wood), which blade would dull, chip, roll and need to be touched up more often?

I'm pretty sure scandi is the answer. I just wanted to hear a scandi guy differ.

 

[Ankerson]

I guess what I meant to ask was- If you had a scandi blade and a convex blade, same steel, same edge angle and thickness at the cutting portion, and you performed the exact same tasks (we'll say feather sticking and power cuts into wood), which blade would dull, chip, roll and need to be touched up more often?

I'm pretty sure scandi is the answer. I just wanted to hear a scandi guy differ.

Too many variables..... Like these being FFG with no micro bevel AND High Alloy, high carbide Steels....

Don't buy into the BS, it's all about using the knives correctly as in proper cutting technique.