What's up with cold steel testing triad locks against cheap knives?

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Feb 11, 2014
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Maybe not that cheap but it seems like they're testing knives that we already know going to fail against a triad lock. I'd like to see Some tests against a benchmade adamas or Spyderco's ball bearing lock or lastly some ZT's thick frame locks with steel inserts.
 
The only "cheaper" knife in the testing video series is the Otonashi vs XHP Recon 1 posted, the rest are more expensive than the CS counterpart they tested against.

The only real potential contender in your list is the Adamas, and maybe the Spyderco ball bearing lock(e.g. manix 2).
For Adamas, i can see it holding a lot of weight, but may not be able to repeat it, as its liners around the axis lock seem like the weak link and can deform making the lock not 100% functional after hard use. Look at Benchmade's own Adamas test video, and also search for "Vininull adamas test" on youtube, both showing liners deformation.
Jankerson had a torture test video for Manix 2, and the same test for American Lawman. You can tell the difference, albeit Spyderco has since improved their ball bearing lock geometry.

I never understand why people regards Framelock as "strong". The only use case when it may be considered strong is when the hand is holding the lock tightly, or when the lock is stuck in the open position contacting 100% of the tang, making it impact resistant. Despite that, the lock cutout will fail under heavy load provided that the lock does not slip first, either by crumbling(for soft material like Ti) or by snapping off(if heat treated steel like Otonashi shown in today's video).
Remember, a lock is only as strong as it's weakest part. The extra thickness of the frame lock only provided more surface area contacting the blade tang, and may help in preventing slipping during shock(more surface = more friction), but is ultimately not the deciding factor for the ultimate strength of the lock. Some liner lock may actually be stronger than frame lock as the liner is thicker than some ultra thin framelock cutout. I remembered Sal from Spyderco mentioned somewhere in their forums that the Ti-framelock Military does not have any strength benefit vs the standard linerlock Milie.

Now, another misconception about steel insert. The are meant to increase lock "longevity". They are not there to add "strength" to the frame lock, but rather to prevent the lockbar from wearing out prematurely due to constant contact with the hard steel tang, as Titanium is a much softer and weaker metal vs steel(for a constant volume). In fact, framelock with steel insert may be more prone to slipping off during impact as it does not "stick" to steel tang like Ti does.
 
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What I don't understand is why ZT/KAI has not released any kind of response to the CS video. The video has clearly created a ferver (countless threads now on this topic), yet they remain silent. If it was your company, woudn't you at least release a statement?
 
The Wildsteer is not cheap, and I thought it would take a lot more than it did. The latest CRKT was no contest, I agree. I'm sure they'll keep adding knives to this comparison, though who knows which? I honestly don't see any frame lock doing very well in this kind of comparison, for the reasons hykew mentioned. The Axis and BB locks would be interesting for sure.
 
What I don't understand is why ZT/KAI has not released any kind of response to the CS video. The video has clearly created a ferver (countless threads now on this topic), yet they remain silent. If it was your company, woudn't you at least release a statement?

The companies that fail to reply are only earning more of my business. Cold steel has a few gem designs in my book (tuff lite) but, the gimmicks get to be a bit much. Some of their videos read like bad infomercials. Impressive, maybe, not earning my business though.

It's a shame really. I commented back when the XHP and BD-1 upgrades were announced that I thought it would do wonders for their reputation. Then they go on this spree. I believe a companies product shouldn't have to be spoken for, let alone shouted about.
 
When one of your selling points of your knife is the lock strength, it makes sense to compare it to competitors. According to CS they've always done this sort of testing, this is just the first time they've actually shown their testing to the public.

As for buying knives just because Cold Steel demonstrated them failing Cold Steel's testing? That's a pretty daft reason there.

Your opinion about advertising is definitely in the minority among all the companies on Earth.
 
If a competitor makes a false or exaggerated claim, a company should release at minimum a statement to prevent the misinformation from becoming accepted fact and negatively impacting the brand. Especially the case when the claim is presented as fact with video evidence purporting to be a fair and accurate representation of the products' relative strengths and weaknesses. And especially when the claim generates so much reaction in the customer base. Just bad market management.

Unless the claim is true.


On the original post, I do not agree that CS has tested against obviously cheap knives. In the case of ZT, the average price is actually higher than most CS triad folders. My Rajah II cost me much less than either my ZT 0562 or 0801. And BTW, I do not believe the claim by CS. Yes framelocks have vulnerabilities and yes the triad lock is strong, but I seriously doubt the validity of the supposed test by CS. Also, I do not believe that a 'spine whack' test actually tests the strength of a lock under any real-world conditions. Spine whacking is not a proper way to use a knife and not what the lock is intended to safeguard against.
 
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As for buying knives just because Cold Steel demonstrated them failing Cold Steel's testing? That's a pretty daft reason there.

Your opinion about advertising is definitely in the minority among all the companies on Earth.

That's not at all what I said. That would be absurd. It just so happens that I am already invested in some of those companies and won't be changing my mind based on unrealistic failures.

The second part is probably true but, I don't see too many other knife companies posting "look what our knives can do that the competition can't" videos. Users do that for them.

Fnzeee. I definitely wasn't trying to take a jab at your statement. Though I see how it might have looked that way. I haven't seen the ZT video you're talking about but agree if false claims are being made then a response is warranted.
 
I'd like to see the Benchmade Adamas, the Sebenza 21 and the Manix 2 tested. I feel like they'll give the Triad a run for its money and would be a more informative test. Sebenzas are not my favorite but every one I've handled seems to have a very sturdy lock compared to other framelocks, and I think it would do well in a lock strength test.

I'm actually unable to guess whether the Triad will actually beat the Adamas in lock strength. I feel like that test could go either way.
 
What I don't understand is why ZT/KAI has not released any kind of response to the CS video. The video has clearly created a ferver (countless threads now on this topic), yet they remain silent. If it was your company, woudn't you at least release a statement?

I'd say there are two main reasons why they won't make a statement regarding the videos. 1st frame locks aren't very strong like people mentioned so there really is no reason to refute the outcome. 2nd and the biggest reason they won't release a statement is because by common marketing strategy a front runner will not acknowledge a competitor unless they feel legitimately threatened. A statement by KAI would get more publicity and attention than anything from Cold Steel and would give more legitimacy to the entire thing.

I like cold steel, and I will continue to buy their knives but KAI is a MASSIVE company that is competing in a different league. Cold steel can make as many videos as they want blowing up KAI knives and it won't really make a difference. KAI will continue to sell more knives than them. A great example is Gerber, probably not as big as KAI but everyone in the knife community knows that generally their knives are garbage and yet they still continue to sell like hot-cakes because they aren't selling to knife enthusiasts. KAI on the other hand produces excellent knives at great prices that appeal to knife enthusiasts AND they are able to hit the same market Gerber does as well as dominate kitchen cutlery. So in KAI's mind Cold Steel simply isn't a competitor, or at least they're small enough that they aren't worth granting legitimacy by acknowledging these videos.
 
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Very well said.

CS markets their knives with the focus on toughness and lock strength. Thats their thing. Cool.

Other companies know that WE KNOW the purpose of a folding knife, thus prolly arent too worried about that one specific factor. Also fine.

Although the near unbreakability of a CS does appeal to me, it hasnt ruined any other brand for me. Lock safety is important, but so is the safety between your ears.

Bob Terzuola also said something to the extent that a lock, when properly made, is more than strong enough to handle higher forces than a human hand can even produce. He was referring to liner locks in this case.

Intended use. Priorities. Just know where YOU stand.

Thx.
 
Fnzeee. I definitely wasn't trying to take a jab at your statement. Though I see how it might have looked that way. I haven't seen the ZT video you're talking about but agree if false claims are being made then a response is warranted.

All good...I did not think your comments inappropriate at all. I realize also that I have gone a bit off track for this thread...sorry to the OP, not my intention to hijack.

Fire Brand - You may be right...I had not considered the relative size of the two companies. Unfortunate really, as I read so many posts where people are now convinced all ZT's are crap. It's funny how many now focus only on the locking mechanism as a differentiator...clearly working to CS's advantage. Ironically, I have found the overall build quality of most ZT's to be superior to CS. Would say the same generally for kershaw, spyderco and benchmade.
 
I didn't mind the videos in which they test their own products, but I'm not too happy about them publically pissing on the other brands/knives that I love. It's unnecessary. I don't enjoy watching them destroy knife community favorites, with their unrealistic torture tests.
I have over a hundred knives, and my MOST used knives are my SAK Classic, and a $7 dollar Ozark Trails knife that I keep on the kitchen counter, for general cutting duties. I have been using the Ozark for over three years, with no issues!
 
When one of your selling points of your knife is the lock strength, it makes sense to compare it to competitors.

I used to defend Cold Steel's advertising back when they showed their own knives doing their thing.
They demonstrated what their knives could do, and the customer could say "Oh, that's cool. Maybe I'll buy one."

Now it seems that's not good enough. Now they have to try and convince people that the competition is crap in addition to showing their own product.

I no longer defend their advertising, and I will probably never buy another Cold Steel product.
Which isn't good for them, seeing as I bought $400 of Cold Steel knives in a couple of months to give my dad to pay back a loan about a year and a half ago (figured knives are better than cash, right?).
I bought duplicates of all those knives for me as well...plus a large Espada (the more expensive one, not the G-10 version)
I'm someone who spends all their extra cash on knives...and now it won't be going to them.

Seeing some of the comments this new direction in marketing has brought out, I'm not the only one who feels this way.
 
Hey, if you're going to talk the talk you better expect somebody will take you to task on your claims. Especially when it's about the bottom line.
 
Hey, if you're going to walk the walk you better expect somebody will take you to task on your claims. Especially when it's about the bottom line.

And the bottom line is they aren't getting any more of my cash...Cold Steel that is.
 
The Triad lock would destroy any production frame lock. They all, to my knowledge, have cut outs that leave only a sliver of titanium to support the lock bar. The idea of the frame lock as a strong lock is a myth, in comparison to the Triad/Axis/CBBL/Compression etc. The only reason it is "hard use" is because when you hold the knife you push the lock bar toward the other liner, so as long as you are gripping the knife it won't close.

They have tested the Adamas comparatively, I believe, and it fared well but did not overcome the Triad.

I also would like to see testing on Spyderco's CBBL and Compression locks, especially in comparison to the Triad. I think they could fare favorably.
 
I will buy MORE of their knives. I just bought two Spartans.

I have no respect for the crybabies that don't like their tests. They are doing you a favor by showing the flaws in other products! Zero Tolerance should be ashamed after their test. I wouldn't take a ZT knife if you gave it to me. The tests work both ways - Spyderco benefited from the Voyager vs. Tantanka test. Cold Steel showed that the Tantanka has a strong lock. Maybe not as strong as Cold Steel. But, it is strong enough. I actually have MORE faith in my Tatanka after that test.

The truth is good. Especially when you produce a product as serious as a knife.
 
I have no respect for the crybabies that don't like their tests.

You're right, they shouldn't want any customers like me who have spent a couple thousand dollars on their product, and would have spent more.

I will now go hide in shame due to you not respecting me. ;)
 
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