What's up with "Mini" knives?

[kbog]

Yes, I read all the posts, I don't think you read my post. I understand legal reasons - as some of you know, I'm buying a sub-3" bladed knife specifically for a trip to Washington D.C. I also understand that some have said that they feel that a small blade is all they need. But what I don't understand is why people (except for legal reasons) get all excited about the BM 635, when the BM 630 is just about perfect.

Probably because they would like a smaller version of the 630...for reasons stated in this thread other than legal.

Going back to a car analogy, even though my previous one was not well-received, imagine you could buy 2 similar cars, both looked about the same, both fit in your garage, both got about the same gas mileage, but one was a 2 seater and one was a 4 seater. If you said that all you need is the 2 seater, because only you and your spouse ride in it, wouldn't it still make sense to buy the 4 seater, just in case? Even if you only used 2 seats 364 days of the year, that one time that you really, really needed the extra seats, wouldn't it be worth it?

That's a better analogy than the first. I would want the two seater for the tasks that a 2 seater is good at - my spouse and I. For the times I really, really need a four seater, I would take my other car...

I guess I just can't fathom the thought process. In the case of the BM 630, we have a highly anticipated knife, built by a well-known, -liked and -respected knife company and designed by a very hot custom knifemaker, a knifemaker whose custom offerings go for 4 - 10 times their initial price on the secondary market. I'm sure these 2 pored over the design, making sure it was just right and manufacturable at a reasonable price point; I'm positive that the dimensions of the knife were not decided upon lightly. The knife itself is made of the finest materials and is one of the best made production pieces, period (literally hundreds of production and handmade knives have passed through my hands in the last 3 years, so I have a pretty good idea of what is well-made and what is not). The knife carries well, and is a nice, useful size. Yet, after all that, many have asked for (and got) less. I have held the BM 635 and honestly thought about putting one on my keychain, I guess I will never "get it".

You're right - you may never get it. No worries - stick with the knives that work best for you. As far as "mall ninja", I have no idea what that is really. It was certainly not necessary. I wouldn't take it too personally though. If you read your first post again, you may see a bit about flaming...why are you surprised now?


Anyhow, if you have a bunch of knives you enjoy, great. I don't need to know why you like them, I'm just glad you do...

 

[flipe8]

Again, I maintain my ideal knife serves the purposes for me and I don't need anything more than that.Carrying some half pound knife in my pocket justs makes no sense to me. The day comes and I discover I need more than a D'Allara Rescue (the largest knife I ever carry)will be the day I will seek more than that.My other interests in life involve going as light as I can, getting rid of the bulk. For me, that attitude has crossed over to most of my kit, knives included.I had asked you earlier what your needs for a larger EDC were and you didn't respond, so I will assume yours aren't needs, but wants. And as I had said before, that's fine. To each his own.I do think the others have given answers, but you don't seem to want to accept them for what they are.I have told you my main reason for a small/mid size knife. In all honesty, I think some of the big knives out there are kind of foolish to carry outside of their intended scope of use.If you work a white collar job, what is the real need for a Military in your pocket? Really? If it for a sense of security, fine. If it is for opening an envelope, silly. Sorry, it is.

 

[WadeF]

I don't understand why you don't understand why people like smaller knives. It's pretty clear to me that most people:

A) Don't want to look like a dork with a giant knife.
B) Don't want to scare people with a giant knife.
C) Opening a letter, box, etc, with a 4-5" blade is over kill and again looks silly to most people.
D) While knives with 4-5" blades maybe legal in some areas, some people may feel uncomfortable having such a large knife on them and trying to explain why they have it, even if they legally don't have to.
E) Some of us were born bigger than others and don't feel the need to carry a huge knife to compensate for things they aren't lacking.
F) Some of us don't want people think we are lacking in certain areas by EDC'ing a large knife.
G) Most cutting applications that I do, and most people do, don't require a large knife and a larger knife won't work any better and only result in us worrying about A, B, C, D, and F.

I normally carry a BM710 and that's as big as I want to go for an EDC. Now if I was going off hiking or something I might go for something larger. If I'm going to a social gathering I'll often carry something smaller since I probably won't be cutting anything significant.

 

[Klesk]

...I wouldn't take it too personally though. If you read your first post again, you may see a bit about flaming...why are you surprised now?

Anyhow, if you have a bunch of knives you enjoy, great. I don't need to know why you like them, I'm just glad you do...

Thanks again, kbog, for the well-thought out response. You're right, I was expecting flames, though flames I can handle. I just wasn't prepared for the condescending tone of some of the responses. I have been here a while, and I have had many, many knives; unlike some who seem to concentrate on smaller knives or have settled on the "perfect" knife and haven't tried anything new, I've had them all, big and small. I've seen a lot of posts here, some questions have been asked over and over, I thought I'd try one that was new, and try to answer a question that was bugging me. Instead, I got maybe 2 intelligent responses, the rest were thinly disguised versions of "jeez, what a stupid question". Oh well, back to lurking.

I don't understand why you don't understand why people like smaller knives. It's pretty clear to me that most people:

A) Don't want to look like a dork with a giant knife...

G) Most cutting applications that I do, and most people do, don't require a large knife and a larger knife won't work any better and only result in us worrying about A, B, C, D, and F.

Probably for the same reason that you don't understand that those of us who choose to go bigger are not necessarily dorks or mall ninjas or so afraid of what others think of us that we would let that dictate the size knife we carry.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

I dont care what anyone thinks, I carry whatever size of knife I want, and I am not doing it to compensate for anything or because of mallninjaesque reasons. I do it because I like larger blades. To me, a 4 inch blade is medium sized at best, certainly not large. I dont really care what some people want to carry, they can carry a mtech the size of a pinhead if they want. I will continue to use a knife that is at least big enough to cut an apple in half, or maybe I will carry a huge bowie if I feel like it. Who cares? why are people getting all defensive about the knives they carry? :jerkit:

 

[robertmegar]

I guess is just like my guns.... At the range a shoot them all, big ones, small ones however I like to shoot MORE the big guns since they are more accurate and comfortable to shoot.

But for EDC... the big guns are overkill and just plain UNCOMFORTABLE.

Same with knives.... I own from the very large to keychain knives. When I go to a ranch, jungle or beach I usually take something in the size range of a machete... however, for edc I carry a keychain knife.

Just like guns... EDC knives will be pocketed most of the time so they will be designed as such (and the reason most people buy them). If you use your knife all the time its not an edc, it would be your work knife.

So, If you carry BIG and feels comfortable thats fine. Its good to know you have "enough" blade shall you need it.... but smaller is usually better for carry and will perform just as good as larger blades 99.9% time.

 

[harpers ferry]

1) comfort: something that is not bulky in the pocket.
2) sheeple friendly: no need to elaborate this topic.
3) concealability: not wanting to advertise even if sheeple friendly and legal.
4) features: how many tacs have a bottle opener like a leg knife or even a small SAK's extra features.
5) traditionalism: some guys want to carry the kinda knife grand dad carried. I can assure you it was not a big tac.
6) geezer factor: closely related to #5. Some of us geezers are returning to the knives of our youth realizing that we had all the knife we needed 40 years ago.

that is not to say that a geezer won't carry a big tac, but there is a time and place for every tool.

 

[DaveH]

I bet people use a whole lot less of a blade then they think they do.

I'l going to mark my EDC on the edge with a marker, then after a few days see how much of the blade i actually use.

I bet what's happened is that for a while the trned had been to go with larger andlarger knives, now the trend is starting to god back down.

 

[jackknife]

I bet people use a whole lot less of a blade then they think they do.

I'l going to mark my EDC on the edge with a marker, then after a few days see how much of the blade i actually use.

I bet what's happened is that for a while the trned had been to go with larger andlarger knives, now the trend is starting to god back down.

Good point on the trend factor, Dave. Trends are a powerfull sales tool, and can make or break a product. The thing about trends, is that they come and go, but I like to look at the stuff that has been here a hundred years. If a product or type of tool has been around that long, it must have something going for it. A trend sells stuff on a perceived need, while something that has stood the test of time has stood on the merit of it really works. Will Benchmade, or other tactical makers be around a century from now? Victorinox has been pushing their products out the door for 115 years now. The humble Opinel was founded in the same year as Charles Elsner did his thing-1890.

I have a feeling that the number of people who buy a knife for the sole reason that they realize a little cutting tool in thier pocket is a useful thing, far outnumber the mall ninjas buying a knife not to just have a cutting tool in a pocket, but a perceived weapon in case of attack by ninjas on the way home from someplace.

The original poster could not understand the miniknives. Perhaps someone bought a benchmade whatever and as he got older and realized he did not need that much knife, he wanted a smaller more usefull blade but he liked the basic features of the knife he had. Just like some people like the big Buck 110, then the 112 got popular, and now you can get a small pocket knife sized mini-Buck called the 55 I belive. So the manufactures come out with a small knife that has the features and looks of the original knife that the customer had bought. Its called downsizing and most of us do it as we age.

Here's a secret for you young studs- as we age we don't want to deal with things that we did not even take note of when we were young. Things that are heavy, or bulky, or just become to much a pain in the butt. Most of my friends my age have downsized. First we are'nt affected by trends, because we've seen it all come and go. Second, because we're a bunch of old farts, we've done "it" for enough decades to know what really works. "It" may be getting the buck field dressed, trout cleaned, boxes opened, sticks whitled, whatever. Dave said he's going to mark the edge of his EDC knife,I'm willing to bet he won't need the back half of his blade.

 

[dantzk8]

I carry and use knives since 40 years. My folders have always been sub 3" blades. I do all what i have to do with such blades. If i need bigger i need a fixed blade.

Just a question: if you are not in the army or in law enforcement why do you need a 4" blade? Don't read that as a criticism. I just would like to understand you.

 

[Pyromancer]

I don't think we can dismiss 4" blades as only being for the army or law enforcement. I think they're more appropriate for the "real working class." People who do most of their work with their hands need the big tough tools. The tools that will not fail in extreme conditions, and over extended periods of times. Eg, if you're a fisherman out at sea, a miner underground, you absolutely cannot go back out to your car and pick up one of the extra 5 folders you stash there.
The rest of us, don't need the advanced capabilities of the "super tactical folders." The rest of us use our cell phones, more than our knives...

Additionally, larger knives usually cost more.
Desmond

 

[puukkoman]

um....
after reading the first page or so of this topic, I wondered why the answer wasn't simply two words:

personal preference

 

[dantzk8]

Desmond,

People who do their work with their hands need more specialised tools than knives are.
fishermen, miners don't have only a job, they have a (dangerous) way of life, like soldiers, firemen... I understand they have their own needs about knives.
That's what interests me: what are yours particular activities (work or leasure) and the influence of those activities on the choice of yours knives.
It could help in a no-end debate.
Nice to read you.

dantzk

 

[Jeff Clark]

When I was a teenager I was into big folding knives. For EDC I carried a nonstainless Italian picklock style pushbutton with a 4-inch blade. The way that I carried it it wouldn't show and get me arrested or kicked out of school. To make a social impression I carried a similar style of knife with a 6-inch kriss-style serpentine blade that I hollow ground. That one was extremely effective when I did slash tests with it. When open the combination was 13-inches long and had a pretty good psychological impact. There were times when I carried a modified folding pruning saw (with a smooth edge and a point ground on the blade). This had a 9-inch blade and about an 11-inch handle. When it was open the combination was about 19 inches long. It was basically useless for utility purposes, but you should have seen the face on guys when I whipped it it out of my pocket and snapped it open with a flick of the wrist.

About the only use I see for a folding knife with a blade length of over 4-inches is to try and scare somebody. In order to be particularly scary you need a blade of about 6-inches long. Between the length of a Buck 110 and Camillus Cuda Maxx I don't see much utility in blade length. It is hard to do precise blade and tip work once the blade is longer than a 110 and you don't gain a lot of self defense advantage until you get up into the Cuda Maxx range. These days I carry a 3.25-inch blade around town. I could skin a deer with that blade and to all of the mundane tasks that I ever see with it. In the last 20 years I doubt that I have once needed a longer blade for a folding knife task. If I needed something longer I needed something more akin to a bowie knife for chopping wood.

The one oddball hybrid that I have used on occasion was a German folding hunting knife. It has a 7-inch blade and a 4-inch handle. When folded about 3 inches of blade tip projects out of the handle and you carry it in a compact sheath. When open it has a rugged 7 inch blade. That is actually pretty usefull and pretty compact. I have also modified an old folding Carcano bayonet to work similarly. It was so useful that my college girlfriend took it for her archeology field trips and never gave it back. I really miss that knife.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

there shouldnt be any kind of debate- that supports the ridiculous notion that there one "right" size of knife to carry. Carry what you like, but dont try to tell other people what they should carry, or question their "need" for any certain knife. What is the point? :jerkit:
Oh, and $*#& sheeple.

 

[Krull]

I must say:though my Al Mar has only 1.75 inch of blade..I don't think I'm "unarmed"..I just have to be more "sneaky"

You don't need a 7 or 12 inch knife to kill!

 

[flipe8]

Rat, the first poster did imply that there was no reason to have a "mini" version of a knife and didn't get why anyone would would be excited about them.That would seem to me someone is saying there is one right knife, or at last a right size. Others disagree.I think there is a right size, but it's for me and my wants/needs, and I'm OK with others not feeling the same.And based on how the thread was started, most people have taken sides based on their preferances and are posting based on them. It seems to be a debate to me; agruments from two sides about a given subject.No harm in it.

 

[dialex]

um....
after reading the first page or so of this topic, I wondered why the answer wasn't simply two words:

personal preference

Couldn't agree more. :thumbup:

 

[yam]

Excellent replies all, but I don't think my question has really been answered. Some have stated personal preference in choosing smaller knives, but that's pretty much a given, if not for legal reasons. Why do you prefer smaller knives, that's what I want to know.

Others have said that they usually only use the tip of their knife, so a small knife is all they need. But a large knife, like the Military, will do the fine jobs just as well, while being easy to carry and while having that extra blade length if needed. Doesn't it make sense to carry the larger knife, if both are comfortable to carry and both do the fine chores equally well? I mean, since the speed limit on the Interstate system is 65 MPH, do you want a car that can just do 65 MPH (Yugo), since that's all you really need, or would you rather drive a car that can do 200 MPH (Ferrari 430), even if you (mostly) don't use the extra power?

And to address the comment that it's all relative, and where do I draw the line, I say that a folder is the pocketable equivalent of a fixed blade knife. That is, we carry folders because they are easier to carry, and less frightening to the sheeple, than a FB. But the folder is only doing tasks that FBs have been doing for centuries. And no matter what kind of FB you carry, whether it is a hunter or tactical or utility knife, the size has pretty much settled down to the 8-1/2" to 11-1/2" range. So, if you accept my proposition that a folder is the politically correct version of a FB, then I say that the size of your folder should be in the range that I mentioned.

I know I'm leaving out the cute little "city knives" and other small utility knives as well as larger bowies and mini-machetes. But those who carry working fixed blades, whether they be ranchers, hunters or soldiers, usually end up with knives of the size that I mentioned above. To summarize, I feel that the practical, usable length of FB knives has been established over centuries of use, in all types of situations. To have a practical folder then, is to have one that is similar in size to those FBs.

This is why the answers went beyond two words of "Personal Preference".

 

[Gryffin]

But what I don't understand is why people (except for legal reasons) get all excited about the BM 635, when the BM 630 is just about perfect.

You keep bringing up the Benchmade Skirmish and Mini Skirmish as examples. Well, in my case, I bought a full-size Skirmish, and you're right, it's a great knife; comfy handle, flawless fit 'n' finish, beefy and sharp blade. I loved it.

Except for one little thing... It was just too big for what I need a knife for every day.

So a couple months ago I popped for a Mini Skirmish. Same immaculate F&F, same ergos, but in a size that handled better for what I used it for. I haven't EDCed the 630 since, and don't really miss it.

harpers ferry pretty much nailed my reasons:

• comfort: the 630 was flat enough that carry wasn't uncomfortable, but it was pretty heavy, and unlike most of my EDC knives, I usually could tell it was there; it would occasionally poke me in places I don't care to be poked. The 635 fits in my pocket better, and is lighter enough that I can't say I notice it.
• sheeple friendly: I work in a corporate HQ, and even an Old Timer stockman freaks out the sheep. The one time I casually flicked open my Skirmish, the resulting "clank" of the lock seating had three people "prairie dogging" over their cubicle walls to see what weapon of mass destruction I'd unleashed. I'm just glad no one got a good look, or one of 'em woulda had Security in my cube for sure. The 635 hasn't drawn that sort of attention, at least not yet.
• concealability: See "comfort" above; in addition that big honkin' it uses for a pocket clip was so big, it was always catching on things, scratching stuff, and of course, hollering to the sheeple around me, "Look! I'm a really large knife!" (see "sheeple" above). The Mini could still stand a better clip, but at least it's a more appropriate size, and doesn't look like I have a teaspoon hanging outta my jeans.
• features: I usually pack a Leatherman or similar, so this one wasn't really an issue; but, it also means that I didn't need to rely on a big ol' knife as my only tool, and hence, didn't really need as much knife. The Mini provides a bigger, sturdier knife for those occasions when the LM's blade isn't enough.
• traditionalism: Not to pick on the Skirmish particularly, but I've long carried a slipjoint together with whatever "tactical" I'm packing. And ya know which one gets more use? Hint: it doesn't have a lock.
• geezer factor: Might be something to this. Besides my 630/635 experience, I find I'm packing smaller knives than I used to, but I sure don't feel like I'm giving anything up. I'll still carry my 4" blades when I know there's serious cutting to do, but that doesn't seem to be as often as it used to!

In general, I used to loooove the big folders, but that's changing. Where I might've once carried my BM 710, I now tend to grab the 941 or 921 or 707, or a Calypso Jr. instead of the Endura; today I'm schlepping a Native III, and feel confident that it's all the knife I need.