What's with the CR Sebenza?

And the claim of a properly priced Sebenza is wrong. It already is properly priced.
If it was overpriced it would not sell as well as it does.

Sometimes I think these Sebenza and Cold Steel threads have some thing to do with a lack of attention in life. :D.
 
From a manufacturing point of view, the difference between "custom" and "mass produced" would be whether or not the parts are designed to be interchangeable. Hand made or machine made doesn't matter; it's all about design intent. Otherwise, every pair of Nike shoes that are hand made in some sweatshop in China would be custom ;)

Taking this further with a car analogy, let's say that quality control in one Generic Motors plant really sucks, and they have to have a guy at the end of the line go over all the parts with a file to get everything to fit together correctly. However, in another plant in the next state over, they're able to put together everything without any rework by human hands. Does that mean a car built in the first plant is a custom, but the car built in the second isn't, even if they're the same model? They're both mass produced, and just because the qc at one plant sucks, doesn't mean that custom cars are suddenly being made there.
 
Most of the conflict in definition with the terms "handmade" and "custom" come from the past. The "Knifemakers Guild" used to define a "custom" knife as one that was handmade by a single maker. This confused the general public because it did not meet the definition of the word "custom" in any dictionary. I see that the Knifemakers Guild has changed their bylaws to the following:

Section 4:
For purposes of these By-Laws, the term “Handmade Knives” shall mean those knives that are 100% made by the maker, in the maker’s own shop, using his or her own equipment. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the following shall not disqualify a knife from being a “Handmade Knife:”
a. embellishments, including engraving, scrimshaw and carving;
b. assembly items such as screws, pins, ball, washers and bolt sets;
c. heat treatment;
d. collaborations between Probationary, Voting and/or Founding members.

This definition of the term "Handmade" is basically what they used to call "Custom". With that change, anyone using the word "custom" these days is either using it with the old Knifemaker's Guild definition (and should be corrected) or is actually expecting the ability to buy a knife with the customer identified embellishments (more like the definition in the dictionary).

Over time, the term "Custom" when associated with knives will seek it's own level of definition. It may take some time though.
 
DaveH said:
"......The <other knife> is made to seemingly look like the quality of a sebenza, but in the engineering under the covers, it falls short.....
Click to expand...

An astute observation. (I'm just reading this thread because my "Search" function is also not working ;) )
 
Well I came to my large classic Sebenza micarta with double thumb lugs from the viewpoint of a user rather than a "knife nut". When up in the mountains hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, etc I usually carry a fixed blade knife. (I like my Fallkniven F1, and for winter use with heavy gloves - a puukko/leuko combination hand built by a Finnish maker ). When searching for a top notch EDC folder that might also be needed outdoors in an emergency, I wanted gear that I could bet my life on. When doing my research the Sebenza came up often and though there was a great deal of variance in opinion as to whether the price of the knife was too high, most people thought it of high quality and well built. I like the idea that the company offers great service and will refurbish it for me when I want. In this particular aspect, Chris Reeve may even offer advantages over custom makers since they have the resources to quickly turn around such work versus a custom guy who may have his hands full building other peoples knives- - In another gear area - boots - I used to buy all kinds from different manufacturers and could never quite get the right fit. I finally broke down and got a custom fit pair from Whites Boots in Spokane. Finally, boots that fit me and don't hurt my feet with hard use ! They guarantee the fit and will rebuild them when needed (years from now). So for the Sebenza and my Whites boots I look at things more from the perspective of a long term relationship with the maker than just buying a "throw-away" product. That aspect has additional value for me in these product categories.

P.S. - the more I use my Sebbie and have slowly moved from the purely "user" to now the "user/knife nut" category - - the more I appreciate how good this knife is.
 
I've read about half of the posts in this thread. This seems to be what it all boils down to; People who have never held a Sebenza or people who have held or owned one and did not like it will often times say that the Sebenza is not worth the price, and that is alright as we all have an opinion. I do think it is going a little far to claim that someone is nuts for paying the price for one as worth to one individual may not be the same as to another person....does this mean these people are nuts or foolish to buy one, I really don't think so. I've owned a couple in the past and both were as perfect as a knife can be, in MY opinion. I only sold them because I could and did recoup every dime from them as I was in need of the money at the time. Now, since my finances have taken an upturn and are stable, I just placed an order for a large Classic with snakewood inserts. It cost me $480.00. Am I a fool to have bought it?..........as I said earlier, I really don't think so, after all it is MY money being spent.:)
 
I think the sebenza is worth every penny. You get what you pay for in this world and if you want the best you have to pay for it
 
buddylee said:
You get what you pay for in this world and if you want the best you have to pay for it
Click to expand...
I would say if you want what others are measured by, you have to pay for it. But best in the world of knives still means performance to me and I still think there are plenty of knives that do just as good a job(and my EDC is a Sebenza).
 
Wow. After ten pages of posts, I have only one question.

What's the big deal about Sebenzas??????

Actually, those of us without Sebenzas, and probably a few with, will never understand the draw of a plain jane quality knife going for $350-$450+. I don't have anything against the knife, but knives are one of those things that don't need exacting tolerances.

When I was a kid, I had a number of illustrated books on mideval weaponry; fine swords, splenid armor. It was engraved, much of it, and very expensive at the time. Only the aristocracy could afford it. I also appreciate engraved revolvers and automatics. Pearl grips with inlaid gold on a royal blue.

Of course, there are plain jane magnums like the Korth, which sell for astronomical prices. Doesn't look like it is any better than a more expensive magnum, but they are made with very careful attention to tolerances. The result was, if you bolted it in to a benchpress and shot it next to other .357s, you could squeeze just a tad more accuracy out of them. But most gun owners know that if they take a Smith & Wesson 686 or a Colt Python, and give it to a qualified gunsmith, that the gunsmith could at least make it equal, or even better, than the Korth. In fact, most of the time you would end up with a far better revolver for just a tiny fraction of the Korth's going price. But most people didn't bother with even doing that for the marginal return for the $$$. In fact, in competitive shooting, Korths are more rare than UFO sightings on the firing line!

So what return do we get from the Sebenza's higher tolerances? There is no accuracy to be gained. And an S30V blade in a Sebenza is not measurably better than any other quality knife's S30V. So the return is not immediately noticable. In fact, a lost Sebenza is no better than a lost Buck.

Having said all this, I don't begrudge anyone, anywhere, for buying Sebenzas, Korths, Rolexes, or whatever. If you can afford it, more power to you. My personal preference is for quality and beauty, and Sebenzas are seriously lacking in beauty. I've seen dozens of photos from peoples' personal collections that are breathtaking, plus they're quality. Quality does reach a point of diminishing returns, and an old beat up Sebenza that's been used and abused most likely won't be worth a whole lot except to the original owner.
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korth_rev_1.jpg


The German Korth is a good revolver, but for $4,000?

.
 
Ahh, Confederate, always remember that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" To me the wood inlaid Classics are as beautiful a knife as there is and that beauty extends to the exacting tolerances that the Sebenza has. And I definately agree that if you have the money buy what YOU want, and never begrudge the buyer of a knife you don't like.:thumbup::D:thumbup:
 
A similar argument comes up frequently between amateur astronomers. You can get a lot of bang for the buck if you buy a 6" f/8 Newtonian on a Dobsonian mount, about $350. But, there are many people waiting in line to buy a 6.1" f/7 Astro-Physics APO refractor for $8,000 (optical tube only). For another $9,000 you can get their fine 900GTO mount.

Getting my 6.1" f/7 Astro-Physics refractor and mount was a dream come true... for me. It might make your CPA roll his eyes but it what floats your boat.

At this time I could care less about fancy knives for the kitchen. A $5 kitchen knife from Ikea is fine with me.
 
I've handled a Korth .357 mag (didn't shoot it). They are very nicely made. The styling seem a little odd. But, I've not felt like I had to have one. S&W is fine with me. I also have a Colt Python and while it looks great it goes out of timing easily. It is now a safe queen.

If you buy a Les Baer 1911 is it worth spending another $300 for their 1.5" at 50 yards option? It floats my boat. :-) I love my LB Ultimate Master with the 1.5" option. It isn't as finely finished as my Valtro but I shoot the LB UM a little better.

I'm sure there are some true custom 1911s that are wonderful but I'm very happy with the production ones I have. Much like my Sebenzas.
 
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