What's with the sniveling about CRK's S30V hardness?

[zyhano]

Why is there so much sniveling about people mentioning problems they've had with CRK's HT is the real question. Do you get a check or something if you can disprove the reported problems? Do you think other people are lying? Or has being a fan or CRK went to the point of being unhealthy(aka sickness) for you that you must make sure everyone believes CRK and their HT is perfect? What's the problem? I don't even care anymore. I know what I know about the matter and you aren't going to change anything by parroting what Chris said. I'm a huge fan or CRK and I carry one everyday but I keep it at a balanced and healthy level.

I'm with you buddy :thumbup:
I like CR knives very very much, but I had my share of stuff happening with it. I'm just looking at it as it is.
Chips, yes, multiple times
Bad grind from factory, yes, had that too.
An edge that wouldn't get dull, yes, I had one..
An edge that dulled too fast, yes, that too..
Situations in which a CR just didn't perform because of it's grind/length/shape etc. Yes, of course.

Do I like CRK any better or any worse? No, I love the knives, the look and feel, the fit and finish, the way they make me happy to own them: they are excellent.

But still, it's a tool that is produced and sometimes things are a little off. It can happen.

It's not sniveling at all, it's called being realistically critical.

oh and btw, I don't mind a title like that at all , a little stirring in the kettle is a good thing

 

[marthinus]

I like the hardness where it is (maybe I dont know much better) but from talking to our makers in SA they have had more knives returned to them when a blade is to hard then when it was softer.

S30V is still a good steel and I like the way it is done by many makers. I just prefer the HT of CRK as its easier to maintain FOR ME.

Some like harder steels, some like softer. For those that like it harder it is great that we can send it to Mr. Bos for HT to higher HRC. Some (like me) dont want a higher HRC.

It is difficult to keep everyone happy as everyones opinions differ. My grandfather believes a carbon steel is still the best for pocket knives, my father prefers a Swiss Army knife (softer steel), a few years ago ATS-34 was the be all and end all of steels, now we are looking at CPM-M4, D2, S110V etc. So it is a continuous change taking place in the knife world.

 

[Don M]

I will question your ability to tell if a blade is soft, under hardened, or not performing because I know nothing about you.

Maybe you don't, but I do. S30V from 4 well-known manufacturers, all with the same edge angle and edge finish, tested with the same number of cuts with the same media, and the Sebenza was dead last, and not just by a little. The other 3 grouped much closer together. That was HIS experience with HIS knives, and you cannot dispute that.

My Sebenza works fine. I have not done a detailed comparison test like Lambertiana has (which was done, by the way, to see if the anecdotal poor performance seen with his Sebenza was a figment of his imagination or not), but in normal use I can't tell much of a difference between S30V from CRK, Buck, Spyderco, and Benchmade. Sure, they are not exactly the same, but the differences in MY samples are small enough to ignore. In Lambertiana's samples, the differences were NOT small enough to ignore. Chalk it up to each individual sample being finished at different hardnesses in the ranges allowed by the different companies.

 

[Josh K]

Maybe you don't, but I do. S30V from 4 well-known manufacturers, all with the same edge angle and edge finish, tested with the same number of cuts with the same media, and the Sebenza was dead last, and not just by a little. The other 3 grouped much closer together. That was HIS experience with HIS knives, and you cannot dispute that.

My Sebenza works fine. I have not done a detailed comparison test like Lambertiana has (which was done, by the way, to see if the anecdotal poor performance seen with his Sebenza was a figment of his imagination or not), but in normal use I can't tell much of a difference between S30V from CRK, Buck, Spyderco, and Benchmade. Sure, they are not exactly the same, but the differences in MY samples are small enough to ignore. In Lambertiana's samples, the differences were NOT small enough to ignore. Chalk it up to each individual sample being finished at different hardnesses in the ranges allowed by the different companies.

In that case he should have let CRK replace the blade. If it was that obvious he had an issue.

 

[lambertiana]

In that case he should have let CRK replace the blade. If it was that obvious he had an issue.

Josh - That was exactly the case. After noticing that my Sebenza did not hold an edge very well, I did a comparison with S30V knives from Buck, Spyderco, and Benchmade. Before testing, all were sharpened at the same edge angle, and to the same final polished finish. All cut the same media (cardboard, all from the same huge heavy duty box, and sisal rope), the same number of cuts. And the sebenza came out dead last, and by a very wide margin. The other three were pretty close to each other, but the sebenza was the distant caboose on that train.

I don't think you fully appreciate my logic for choosing not to have the blade replaced. CR said that it was completely in spec. Why should I spend more of my own money sending it back for a replacement blade if there was a chance of getting another one like it? If this one was in spec, it means there are more like it out there that are also in spec. I just felt that my money was better spent on a sure thing instead of a gamble. We may argue about the odds of that gamble, but it was still a gamble based on the evidence that I held in my hand.

CR also told me that I was running the edge angle too low (14 degrees per side). This is the same angle that I have on my other S30V blades and I have no problem with them. Perhaps at the lower Rc the low edge angle leads to easier rolling and dulling. But since S30V is easily capable of handling the higher Rc at lower edge angles, that is what I wanted. Others might find the higher angle and lower Rc are more in line with how they use their knives. I just know that it wasn't meeting my own uses. Paul Bos does S30V to Rc 59.5, and it is now a lot harder than it originally was.

Think of it this way - how often do we see people modifiying their handles, even on knives from CR, and they usually get ooohhhs and aaahhs from everyone. They are simply modifying the knife to better suit their own needs. So why can't I modify the HT to better suit my needs without having my judgement questioned? I have been collecting, using, and sharpening knives for over 35 years, and I have seen many many different blades representing a huge variety of shapes, sizes, grinds, and steel. I know what I like and I know what I expect from a knife. This was simply a case of a soft blade not meeting my expectations, and I had it modified to better suit my needs.

 

[nifegrinder]

Think of it this way - how often do we see people modifiying their handles, even on knives from CR, and they usually get ooohhhs and aaahhs from everyone. They are simply modifying the knife to better suit their own needs. So why can't I modify the HT to better suit my needs without having my judgement questioned? I have been collecting, using, and sharpening knives for over 35 years, and I have seen many many different blades representing a huge variety of shapes, sizes, grinds, and steel. I know what I like and I know what I expect from a knife. This was simply a case of a soft blade not meeting my expectations, and I had it modified to better suit my needs.

Good for you, good argument.:thumbup:

 

[The Mastiff]

Lund - I did give them the opportunity to make it right. I sent my Sebenza back, and they tested it and found it to be in spec (58 Rc, which could actually be 57 when you consider that Rc measurements are usually plus or minus 1, and mine was soft enough that it could easily have been 57). CR offered to replace the blade,

Some of us do prefer our steel run higher. There is better wear resistance at higher RC's. These aren't opinions, they are facts.

That being the case who in the world could possibly find fault with a company that goes this far to satisfy the customer.

Chris has his reasons to run his blades how he does. It's not a fault, but a choice.

I think it's just best for us that desire higher numbers to just have them rehardened elsewhere, and take the chances on that for violating the warranty.

The performance increase is worth it to me. Not everybody sees it my way, or wants it that high.

No one is right or wrong anymore that you are right or wrong for choosing vinegar over lemon juice on fish.

BTW, I still like BG42 better

edit: BTW, I really can't find more that one or two instances of production companies running the steel as hard as I'd like it. RC 58 is within the specs on almost every production company using it ( S30V) currently. On the other hand I like my M2 at RC 66, my M4, and S125V at RC 65, 1095 at RC 65, etc., etc.

 

[bearcut]

I personally don’t like the lower RH of CRK’s S30V.
I agree with others who have noticed that it is one of the softest heat treats out there.

 

[pvicenzi]

There is no right or wrong here. Some people like/need their blades treated to a higher rockwell hardness and some people don't. Therfore, you can't say CRK is wrong for choosing what they do, and you can't say those that want a harder heat treat are not wrong either.