What's wrong with the Lil' Temperance?

C

cameron.personal

Joined
Jan 24, 2005
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27
I absolutely love my Spyderco Yojimbos and Ronin, I have just ordered a Sharpmaker set, and I am contemplating adding another knife to the order...

So my question is:

What is wrong with the Lil' Temperance that they are discontinuing it?

I like the materials that it is made from S30V - G10 - Compression lock it is a lot like the Yojimbo in that regard.....

What do you guys think? Should I add a Lil' temperance to the order?

Thanks,
Cameron
 
It is being updated to Lil Temperance II. Thus, the original version is out of production.
 
Get one while you can! Its the best Spydie ever made (well the Manix gives it a run for the money, I will admit). This statement is of course based completely on personal preference.
 
I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with Lil' Temp at all. The one time I handled one I almost didn't give it back the clerk, I liked it that much. New product lines and improvements mean that models get phased out, sometimes regardless of how good they may be. I think it'd be a solid pickup at the lower price if it fits what you're looking for.
 
cameron.personal said:
What is wrong with the Lil' Temperance...?
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Er, the clip.
:barf:

The Lil Temp and the ATR... Shining examples of bad clips happening to good knives.
 
Actually, I have really come to like the clip. Indexing a Manix is pretty difficult and not overly save. Indexing a Lil'T is a breeze. Which is really what the clip was designed for, if I am not mistaken.
 
Hi Cameron.

Lili' temperance probs were mostly centered around vendors. The model is in a re-design mode, as Carlos mentioned. We've received many good bits of info from customers for improvement. Once the re-design is complete, we'll re-look at the Vendor situation.

It will be a while though, as we are involved in many models at this time.

sal

-----------------------------------------------

The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards. We all work for you!
 
Ever since holding the proto-model revised little Temp at Blade, I decided I will wait with patience the arrival of this knife. I'm torn too because I want a Manix but I still remember how the revisions made that Li'l Temp melt into my hand. Hope it does come out sometime this year.
 
I think the Lil Temp is great. The only reason I don't own one is due to the color :) I would like a black one.

Cheers,
FoM
 
I hate it. The handle is ugly, an ugly color and too large for the blade size. The blade is too small given the amount of pocket space the big handle takes up. The clip is ugly and hard on pockets. The compression lock is difficult to use and pinches. Another sad example of the "militarization" of the spyderco line. Why they put tiny blades on weapons is hard to fathom. They used to sell tools that could be weapons (except for the civilian which was not advertised)...now they openly pander to the knives as weapons crowd. All around an over engineered piece of plastic and steel that deserves retiring.
 
Mmmh, interesting observation, brownshoe, but with all due respect I don't quite follow your observation:
- Length wise, the handle is pretty much exactly a grand total of 0.5 in too long to accomodating the blade, and that would cut it quite close.
- There are actually not many knifes in the Spyderco lineup (past and present) that have an appreciably longer usable edge length than the Lil'T. So by your own argument if Spyderco used to sell tools that could be weapons, then the Lil'T is also fully functional as weapon (not too short a blade).
- IMHO the blade shape clearly marks the Lil'T primarily as utilitarian. So again it doesn't fit your description of "small blade on weapon"
- What kind of "plastic" are you referring to? I would hardly describe the massive G-10 slabs as "plastic".
- The knife laws have changed, and I see Spyderco just following the law by putting out knives that are actually legal to carry (short blade length).
- I have never been able to pinch myself with a compression lock?
- Spyderco just recently changed their designation from MBC to VHD, I think that is also contrary to your observation.
 
Just got my Lil T today. I only have 21 Spydies in my collection so I'm not an authority but I like the handle size and blade relationship. Fits my hand well. I carried a small Spydie on the job for 10 years before I retired and it served me well. I bought the Temp because it is going to disappear so I will pass it on to my grandson with the rest of the collection. I think it is a nice knife. I only use sheaths for carry, probably from my military and LEO background, so I can't speak to the "pocket eating" problem. As far as the whole self-defense thing, I'm not much of an authority there either. Sometimes I'll go for weeks between knife fights. :D
 
HoB

The handle construction, holes in the clip and the lock were specifically put on this knife for use as a weapon per spyderco happy talk at the knife's inception.

The knife laws have not changed in the US. Specific groups, such as airlines and courthouses have place restrictions on knives since 2001, however these are not laws. They don't affect many people, except those who carried very small pocket knives on airplanes.

I looked through the catalog this week and compared it to older ones. Spyderco now has a plethora of blades that don't even have >2" cutting edge. So maybe nowadays, the LilTemp is a "big blade." I still think its a waste of handle space. I've got plenty of blades the size of the LilTemp, but with handles that are thinner, smaller an less anoying in the pocket.
 
brownshoe said:
The handle is ugly, an ugly color and too large for the blade size. The blade is too small given the amount of pocket space the big handle takes up.
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I fail to see why the blade to handle ratio is so important. Personally, I'm much more concerned about the handle fitting my hand than the blade. I find that the Lil' Temp's handle fits my hand very well.

The blade on the other hand is large enough to be very effective for utility or self defense while still staying under most length limits. The space in the pocket is a handle issue which is basically hand, not blade related.

brownshoe said:
The clip is ugly and hard on pockets.
Click to expand...

Clip aesthetics are not a big deal to me either. The clip holds the LT securely in my pocket which is my foremost concern.

brownshoe said:
The compression lock is difficult to use and pinches.
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I haven't had these problems. Again my major concerns about a lock are taken care of - it is very strong and very dependable!!!

brownshoe said:
Another sad example of the "militarization" of the spyderco line. Why they put tiny blades on weapons is hard to fathom. They used to sell tools that could be weapons (except for the civilian which was not advertised)...now they openly pander to the knives as weapons crowd. .
Click to expand...

Sal Glesser has explained his "Big/Little Knives" concept. You may not agree with it, but that doesn't mean Spyderco is wrong - just that if you ran Spyderco you would have a different philosophy. Sal seems to be doing OK.

brownshoe said:
All around an over engineered piece of plastic and steel that deserves retiring.
Click to expand...

Sorry, again I disagree (ignoring the "plastic" comment). I find the Lil' Temperance to be a well thought out, well engineered tool that does exactly what it was designed to, and does it well.

David
 
Well, over Chrismas I got to handle both a Dodo and a William Henry T09 which have blades of similar lengths. Even though the William Henry is a beauty and has perfect workmanship, I can barly hold on to it. It fits three fingers at most. The Dodo on the other hand feels very good in my hand. And so does the Lil'T. I agree that the Lil'T is not a light ride in the pocket but IMO the hand filling size of the handle makes more than up for it in use. I guess I rather take a knife that's more annoying in the pocket and less annoying in the hand.

As to the actually idea behind the design I am usually very interested in, but more out of curiosity. It matters little to me if a knife was designed as a weapon, if it fills its roll as utility well. Personally, I tend to change my grip on a knife even if I cut a box or tape, so I have come to appreciate the clip you hate so much, even though I have no intention nor any training to use the Lil'T as weapon. And I fail to see why a comfortable handle should be the privilege of a weapon?

On of the things I like most about the Lil'T is the wide blade (same I like about the Manix) and I assume you would see that also as a waste of space. Because to fit a blade as wide as the Lil'T's you need a pretty big handle. If you make the handle thinner you don't really gain anything since the blade will simply stick out of the handle. My point was more that the Lil'T has a surprisingly long cutting edge for its blade length, in fact one that is almost as long as that of the Manix, which, I hope, you won't call a "small" knife.

The law in Massachussets and in Boston in particular HAVE changed after 2001 and the enforcement as well. Part of the "dangerous weapons law" in Mass has not changed but the punishment for perpetration of the law has. When ever I enter the borders of Boston proper, I would have to remove any knife from my person AND out of my car. Obviously I am forgetting that occasionally (though not intentionally). I would think, that the impression I would make on a LEO, is quite different depending on the size of the knife. So your statement that the law has not changed certainly does not hold in its generality.

I will openly admit that I am very partial to the compression lock, simply because I really, really like it (the one on the Lil'T in particular), and I would hate to see the concept disappear. Me doggedly defending the compression lock is purely an act of selfishness.
 
I must say, I agree with HoB.

A few comments in addition:

1. Sal's project was to do the most reliable, the sturdiest, the strongest, 3" blade knife in the world. He did it. Very successfully.

2. It is among the best SD knives in that size. Also, it is very heavy duty utility knife, a perfect cutter.

3. Personally, I like the handle very much. It is very secure in the hands, and it is a high-tech product.

4. With nested liners, the knife is very strong. It is very easy to clean it because there is no spacer. Compare that to the Manix, or BM 710. Both have liners with holes - obviosly not very easy to clean it inside a handle.

5. There are no small parts, e. g. omega springs (BM 710), etc. that could break. Compression part of the liner is practically indestructible.

6. I think it is only an optical effect - a blade is somewhat hidden under the G-10 handle (on top) making the Lil looks like a knife with 'small' blade and 'huge' handle. Compared to Lil, the Manix has a CUTTING EDGE only 6 mm (1/4") longer. If you have a Lil do you really need a Manix?

7. Lil is a platform for the future as Sal said. But even now I have no significant complaints (well, the clip which eats jeans less would be appreciated).


Franco
 
I still plan to refine and re-issue the Lil Temperance as a very heavy duty 3.0" folder. I think it will be a better model than the original.

brownshoe said:
I hate it. The handle is ugly, an ugly color and too large for the blade size. The blade is too small given the amount of pocket space the big handle takes up. The clip is ugly and hard on pockets.

Hi Brownshoe, Ugly is a genetic disorder of the breed, and in the eye of the beholder. sorry the model offends your eye. ;)

The new handle is lighter and takes up less space. The new clip is wire. Thanx for the input.

The compression lock is difficult to use and pinches.

Has been improved to avoid the "pinch".

Another sad example of the "militarization" of the spyderco line. Why they put tiny blades on weapons is hard to fathom. They used to sell tools that could be weapons (except for the civilian which was not advertised)...now they openly pander to the knives as weapons crowd.

There is some truth to Brownshe's comment on the weapons arena. Communication and study with; James Keating's Riddle, Bob Taylor, Bram Frank, Michael deBethencourt and Michael Janich has influenced our offering.

On the other hand, this influence has also caused us to make stronger, safer and more reliable knives.

Current leaning will be a synthesis of the two.

Always appreciate the input and different points of view.

sal

---------------------------------------------

The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards. We all work for you!
Click to expand...
 
That's a gentleman right there folks. To reply to a very rude post in such an open and friendly manner is more than I would expect of someone. Congrats Sal.
 
Thank you Blondie, but Brownshoe isn't rude, just opinionated and blunt. I can handle that because he always speaks his truth. And believe it or not, we even agree sometimes. ;)

sal
 
Dear Sal, such a gentleman as you are, would you please show us just one tiny photo of the upcoming new lil'T? Pleeeeeeezzzzzz.... I really can't wait. ;)
 
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