What's Wrong With This Picture?

When Guyon named this thread "What's Wrong With This Picture?", I don't think he was asking for a critique of his photography. You have to sometimes consider the context and not take the words at face value in order to understand, Mr. G. If you have trouble in the future, just let me know and maybe I can help you out.
 
Guyon said:
What's Wrong With This Picture?
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A. You are shooting a 30-30: old, underpowered, never good from the beginning. I'd let you shoot at me at 100 yards, and laugh as the round-nosed bullets tumbled at my feet!

2. You are shooting Remington Core-Lokts: I don't need to go in depth on this one...

D. You kept misfired ammo, that's breaking rule number 2, (Rule number 1: don't go hunting with Cheney).
 
I don't know if there's an acceptable tolerance on primer seating in factory ammo, and I don't reload rifle ammo, but on any of my 9mm reloads a primer that doesn't seat flush or just barely-slightly-kind-of-a-little-bit-sort-of below flush is off to the bullet-puller for another try. No primers above flush for me. Ever.



Please excuse the technical terms for "below flush". :D:D
 
michaelmcgo said:
A. You are shooting a 30-30: old, underpowered, never good from the beginning. I'd let you shoot at me at 100 yards, and laugh as the round-nosed bullets tumbled at my feet!

2. You are shooting Remington Core-Lokts: I don't need to go in depth on this one...

D. You kept misfired ammo, that's breaking rule number 2, (Rule number 1: don't go hunting with Cheney).
Click to expand...

I'll take the heat on the Core-Lokts. They're cheap, but they've served me well until this incident. Like I said, I'm going to go with the Hornaday LeverEvolutions. Rubber pointed tips prevent ADs inside the tube and make the bullets more accurate. The ads claim these new rounds turn the .30-30 into a 250 yard deer rifle. I'll believe it when I see it.

But "underpowered" and "never good from the begining"? An awful lot of deer would disagree with you. I've read numerous times that this caliber has taken more deer than any other centerfire caliber.

As for the misfired ammo, according to the guy at Remington, if they haven't fired by now, they aren't going to fire. I kept waiting for them to explode inside my dry box, but they disappointed me.
 
Sorry, I was just jidding, I should have included one of these: :D, or possibly even one of these: ;).


As for the 30-30, it was state of the art when it came out, and still is a great cartridge. I don't believe in magnum rifle cartridges anymore (my first rifle was a .300 win mag). I hunt whitetails in the brush with a Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag, and when the shot is over 100 yards, I bring my 7mm-08. I hear that the LeverEvolution bullets are something else, they turn the 30-30 into a viable 250 yard gun. I don't like core-lokts because of their inaccuracy, but I reload for all of my guns. Core-lokts usually are dead reliable though, so I'm impressed to see two primer failures in a row. Keep us updated on what Remington says.

As for keeping loaded ammo, I don't follow that rule either, I just wait 1 minute before unloading a dud, then consider it safe. Heck, I'd probably go hunting with Chaney if he called.

Good luck hunting.
 
How coul you possibly get these back to Remington? Who would except primer struk ammo for transport?


Paul
 
There's a bit of confusion here ... a defective cartridge can hang fire for a few seconds, even for a lot of seconds on rare occasions, but it can't hang fire for hours or days and go off in the mail when you send it back to the manufacturer.
 
pcnorton said:
How coul you possibly get these back to Remington? Who would except primer struk ammo for transport?


Paul
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Remington rep told me to ship them UPS. Like Cougar said, they're not going to fire at this point.
 
One thing about LeverRevolution ammo; it's good, but you'll need to resight your rifle. They shoot quite a bit differently than standard 30-30 loads.
 
Cougar Allen said:
There's a bit of confusion here ... a defective cartridge can hang fire for a few seconds, even for a lot of seconds on rare occasions, but it can't hang fire for hours or days and go off in the mail when you send it back to the manufacturer.
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Really? Why would that be? If it can delay a lot of seconds...why not a minute or hour? Does the pressure exerted by the dented primer dissipate?

I always was taught never/minimize handling dented primer ammo.

Paul
 
too much oil or other lube on the firing pin.
slowing it down too much to? i have seen this happen before on 1911's
and could happen on other firearms.
 
pcnorton said:
Really? Why would that be? If it can delay a lot of seconds...why not a minute or hour?
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A fire can only burn for a short time when it's limited to the flammables that can fit inside a rifle cartridge. Normally it burns for about one millisecond (1/1000 second). A misfire can burn more slowly for a few seconds, but then it either starts burning for real (for a millisecond) or else it goes out. The routine is when a gun doesn't go off you keep the action closed and the gun pointed in a safe direction for one minute to make sure you don't have a hangfire.
 
Cougar Allen said:
A fire can only burn for a short time when it's limited to the flammables that can fit inside a rifle cartridge. Normally it burns for about one millisecond (1/1000 second). A misfire can burn more slowly for a few seconds, but then it either starts burning for real (for a millisecond) or else it goes out. The routine is when a gun doesn't go off you keep the action closed and the gun pointed in a safe direction for one minute to make sure you don't have a hangfire.
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This assumes the fire lit but went out. I was thinking the pressure wasn't enough and anymore pressure might set it off. My reasoning is some misfires I had on my .45 or .38, I cranked the hammer back and squeezed again and got the shot off. Some never went off, they stayed in the gun pointed down range and after a minute or so ejected and never touched again.

I appreciate taking the time to square me away though.


Paul
 
pcnorton said:
This assumes the fire lit but went out. I was thinking the pressure wasn't enough and anymore pressure might set it off. My reasoning is some misfires I had on my .45 or .38, I cranked the hammer back and squeezed again and got the shot off. Some never went off, they stayed in the gun pointed down range and after a minute or so ejected and never touched again.

I appreciate taking the time to square me away though.


Paul
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Primers are filled with components that fire on impact, not pressure. The initial impact of the firing pin is what sets the primer on fire, not the pressure.
 
michaelmcgo said:
Primers are filled with components that fire on impact, not pressure. The initial impact of the firing pin is what sets the primer on fire, not the pressure.
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Impact=pressure..at least I thought so.:confused:

I'm going to take a primer to a vise and see what happens.:confused:


Paul
 
pcnorton said:
Impact=pressure..at least I thought so.:confused:

I'm going to take a primer to a vise and see what happens.:confused:


Paul
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Impact is pressure, but if you look at the "pressure" inside the primer as it's being struck, there's a huge spike when the firing pin hits it, and then it decreases back to near-atmospheric pressure very quickly (assuming a misfire). Denting the primer using slow and steady pressure won't do anything, as the pressure inside will only ever increase a little, but hitting it with a hammer will send a big pressure spike through it, and then let it come back down.
 
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