when advice turns to criticism.......

ryan9977

ryan9977

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Feb 16, 2006
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ok this might be weird but i wanted to get some makers opinions......i recently got a knife form a maker....it was horrible.....i just wound up selling it instead of returning it......i couldn't return it under the circumstances(but that's another story)......do you tell the maker what is wrong with the knife?......ie-crooked blade, tang sticking up past scales, not sharp enough, etc.....or do u just let it go and move on to another maker.....i would liketo know myself if i made an inferior product but at what point do u cross the line?.....do any makers have any advice or experiences with this?.....ryan
 
Personaly I would want to know. I realy dont want a knife like that floating around out there with my name on it if it were as bad as you said but that's just me.
 
rusty....i can understand that totally....i got a knife from the same maker like 2 years ago and it was even worse than one i got recently....i thought things would have improved alot over the 2 years.....i also fel bad telling someone who put that much effort into something that it sucks......


i cook alot and used to professionally ......when people ask me what i think of a dish they made-i tell them...too little salt...not seared enough....overcooked etc.....my gfriend alwasy yells at me.....i always tell her...if i say it was great they'll be making the same crap for the next twenty years without knowing.....i guess it's the same with any craft.....ryan
 
I would want to know. I'm still new at this and don't feel comfortable with my skill level to sell let alone show but if I did put something out it would have to pass my rather high standards. If you or other customers never say anything how will the maker ever know or the quality ever improve, especially given the 2 year history you've given? I would just be honest but polite and tactful. Besides who can tell how much individual attention this person puts on every piece unless you ask. Either way it sounds as if there are some questions to be asked and answered and this experience is something that you can still learn more from through communicating with the maker.
 
i don't wanna single out any particular makers....but i will:D....please don't answer if you don't want to mr. wheeler.....but i have heard you say one of the reasons you don't make alot of knives is that they have to pass your bery high standards and you have a large scrap pile....is this true....can u share anything to the conversation....please-don't think i am singling you out....i just wanna know people's thought processes more.....i can't imagine ever ebing sastisfied enough with anything to actually sell it.....ryan
 
If one is in the business of making and selling knives, one should expect honest feedback from all buyers of said product.
If the buyer doesn't tell the maker they don't believe they got honest value for their dollar, no one is served.
If you make your feelings known; Either the maker will take the criticism seriously, if the criticism is warranted and improve his product or he will vanish from the scene pretty quickly for lack of talent and skill.
If you don't state your opinion the maker will continue in the same vane, thinking his product is acceptable; In this way you have done know one any service by not speaking up.

Fred
 
Ryan,
As a maker I would want to know. I would not want anyone to keep a knife I made if they were unhappy with. I would rather you tell me its the only way we learn. I see alot of knives posted that a few constructive comments would help the maker to improve his craft. All the comments are very positive. This may be a diservice to our craft.
 
I would want to know as well. I think sending him an e-mail or calling him would be more appropriate.
 
They should accept honest feedback, but maybe they knew what you the customer was expecting due to the previous deal.

Just a thought, Craig
 
Personally Ryan I would definitely want to know and I would want the knife back, so I could fix it or make a new one. And yes I also have a scrap pile in my shop. If it does not pass my inspection as the best I can make, it does not leave. I have these broken blades and bent blades laying around as remonders. If you don't let us know, how can we fix the problem areas, yes sometimes criticism smarts, but ultimately it makes us better makers.
 
Dont know If I'd tell Mr Tomberlin he did bad work, Thats one big fella there now definately someone to look up to. But I do agree with every thing he said. You can't fix what you don't know is broke or is wrong.
Kinda like when my wife told me to get glasses, I did and my work got better cuz I could see how bad I was messing up.
You goin to Al's this month Mr Tomberlin?
 
Personally, I'd want to know. I'm thick skinned though and I know a lot of folks aren't. I've found that there are a couple of types of knifemakers, and you can separate them with a question that J. Neilson asked me when I first handed him a knife of mine and asked him for his opinion.

"Do you want me to tell you, or do you want me to tell you it's great?"

Some folks just like to hear how awesome everything they touch is. It's just a fact of life.

If you are a paying customer though, and a maker has handed you something that you don't believe is up to the standard you expect for the money paid, you should tell them. You don't have to be mean about it, but you should be honest. If they take the criticism well, and try to make it better/right, stick with them, they'll get better and you'll want their future work. If they pull an attitude with you, keep on going.

All of this of course assumes you're being reasonable. Don't expect Mastersmith work in a $150 knife. Quality should be commensurate with cost.

-d
 
As a new maker I would want to know. As an older maker I would want to know. I think you should tell him and try to make arrangements with him to satisfy both of you. I always let the person look at the knife before I sell it to them. All the knives I've sold have been in person and most to friends or friends of friends so I can do this. I plan to start selling over the web etc. I will put some type of inspection period 3-5 day for the customer to be happy.
 
ryan9977 said:
ok this might be weird but i wanted to get some makers opinions......i recently got a knife form a maker....it was horrible.....i just wound up selling it instead of returning it......i couldn't return it under the circumstances(but that's another story)......do you tell the maker what is wrong with the knife?......ie-crooked blade, tang sticking up past scales, not sharp enough, etc.....or do u just let it go and move on to another maker.....i would liketo know myself if i made an inferior product but at what point do u cross the line?.....do any makers have any advice or experiences with this?.....ryan
Click to expand...

Hi Ryan,

I don't understand why you wouldn't let the maker know? Did you buy it yourself or was it a gift someone else bought? Why couldn't you return it, but could sell it? Did you break even or turn a profit or lose money? Seems someone thought ok of the knife if they paid you cash money for it. Do you know this maker personally or have a rapport of some sort with them? Does the maker know you received the knife? Again, if you buy something (assuming you bought it) and it did not meet your expectations why in the world wouldn't you discuss it with them??? Did you see the knife before paying for it? Was it a prepaid order? I'm a bit befuddled.

If I was the maker of the knife I sure would want your feedback. Hopefully you would express your disappointment to me in a manner that I would be professional enough to receive well. The nature of the transaction of the knife coming from me and getting to you would probably be part of the equation too though, I should think.

All the best, Phil
 
I would like to know if something I made wasn't up to par.

Now on the other hand some people are either very hard to please or are not able to be pleased. Some people are never happy with anything.

Case in point:

I bought a surefire devastator flashlight from sportsman's warehouse $250 then decided that I wanted something else, after clicking it on 5-10 times (maybe 5-6 min total use) so 2-3 days later I posted it up on candlepowerforums.com and explained the story. Posted very good pics of it and it sold to some guy out of state the next day.

2 weeks goes by and the guy emails me and says that it is the worst transaction he has ever made and the light was a total piece of crap all scratched up and crap. I told him to send it back and I would give him his money back but he never emailed me back. The frigin light was brand new still in the original box, never been dropped.

My point is that sometimes you may be disappointed in a transaction but you need to give it some serious thought before calling some one out.
 
I would definitely want to know but I would feel like a heel if I sent out something that I handcrafted and it was full of the flaws that you mention so I wouldn't sell something like that and put my name on it.

Do makers have bargain bins for unmarked knives with flaws??
 
I would certainly hope that if a customer where not happy with one of my knives, that he would let me know. I agree with the others...I DO NOT want one of my pieces floating around out there that shouldn't be. My policy is that if the customer is not 100% pleased, then I am not.

Something I do, is offer a 7-day "review" period on most all of my pieces. Once the customer receives it, they have seven calendar days to accept or decline the knife. If they choose, they may return the knife to me (in good condition) and I simply put their payment in an envelope and send it back to them. This policy does not apply to highly customized pieces that would not otherwise be readily re-sellable, but I make that clear to the customer before the project is ever started. After the 7-day inspection period has ended, my normal warranty applies....I will repair/replace any honest failure, and do all I can to make it right for the customer.

We are all human, and we do make mistakes/errors. However, that being said, I have witnessed several pieces from what most consider world class makers, that I would have been embarrassed to offer when I was a JS.
Thats the tough part about attaining a high standard....you MUST always meet or exceed that standard, and some makers will let things "slip" a little and try to get by on their reputation....which is a bad thing for all of us.

I personally think an individual maker who does such a thing should be "called on the carpet" by their customer(s). You don't have to be mean or rude, and if the maker has the "right" attitude, simply telling them what you are/were disappointed in about the knife SHOULD scare the heck out of them. If you get attitude or excuses, then thats not a maker you want to be dealing with.
As I often tell my students.... A good reputation is the most difficult thing to achieve, and the easiest thing to loose if you don't pay attention.
 
thanks for all the info guys...i appreciate it....ryan


phil-i'd rather not go into the whole story....i don't want the name of the maker to come out in public....i did loose money on the deal and i was kinda ticked off about it but it was my fault for not bringng things up in a timely manner....i guess i'll leave it at that and lesson learned.....ryan

thanks again guys.....ryan:thumbup:
 
ryan my knives are crap but i just started .But my second knife is better than my first and i know this will be true for me from now on. I would talk to the guy and let him know.If i order a hot blonde from a escort service and ended up with a ugly fat whore think ide be happy. Call the man NOT the escort service lol kellyw
 
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