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When did Military Knives become black?
- Thread starter KenHash
- Start date
lambertiana
Gold Member
Interesting info regarding color. Kind of OT, but my Springfield 1911 is parkerized, and it has a definite olive drab cast, it is not truly dark grey.
Monofletch
Gold Member
Our bayonets (issued) were sort of stonewashed or dull grey with Olive drab handles. They NEVER left the arms room though because 19k tankers don’t need them.
I only remember because I was the company armorer for a minute and I had to count them for inventory.
I only remember because I was the company armorer for a minute and I had to count them for inventory.
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David Nowlin
Gold Member
I believe you see the troops in band of brothers sooting up the ends of their rifle barrels( gas tube) with lighters before they went on a nighttime recon across the river. Two of the WW2 Garrand rifles i have, have blued barrels but the gas tubes are silver in color. They eventually figured out how to make the gas tube same as the barrel
I believe the trend started in 1945 when the USM4 bayonet started being produced with black plastic handle. All US bayonets since have had black plastic handles, although the M9 has also been made with desert tan and forest green plastic handles, with matching plastice scabbards,
The US DOD added a requirement to the manufacturing specs for the VN-era MIL-K-20277C (the "new" nomenclature for the 1219C2/USN-MK2) that the leather handle disks and sheaths be treated with an anti-fungal compund. This led to the sheaths and handles taking on a much darker brown, almost black appearance.
In 1966, the USMC regs changed the specs for leather gear from brown to black. Sheaths (and belts and other leather goods) already in the supply system were hand dyed prior to issue. Items already issued were also dyed. Many sheathsand belts were only dyed on the face/edges, with the backside remaining the orginal neutral/tan/brown/undyed appearance. All new sheaths were produced in black.
Camillus contract 20227Cs after 1966 up through when they lost their government contract for making the knives and then civilian sales production to the end of the company in 2006 were made with black handles and sheaths.
All Ontario 20227Cs have been made with black handles and sheaths. The USN-MK3 has only been produced in black.
With the "real" military knives taking on a black hue, the civilian wannabees have adopted black as the "tactical" color of knives.
The US DOD added a requirement to the manufacturing specs for the VN-era MIL-K-20277C (the "new" nomenclature for the 1219C2/USN-MK2) that the leather handle disks and sheaths be treated with an anti-fungal compund. This led to the sheaths and handles taking on a much darker brown, almost black appearance.
In 1966, the USMC regs changed the specs for leather gear from brown to black. Sheaths (and belts and other leather goods) already in the supply system were hand dyed prior to issue. Items already issued were also dyed. Many sheathsand belts were only dyed on the face/edges, with the backside remaining the orginal neutral/tan/brown/undyed appearance. All new sheaths were produced in black.
Camillus contract 20227Cs after 1966 up through when they lost their government contract for making the knives and then civilian sales production to the end of the company in 2006 were made with black handles and sheaths.
All Ontario 20227Cs have been made with black handles and sheaths. The USN-MK3 has only been produced in black.
With the "real" military knives taking on a black hue, the civilian wannabees have adopted black as the "tactical" color of knives.
The black ops and covert stealth blah blah terms are always thrown around. But we forget that sometimes it was just a group of guys who had to move around in the dark. My own paranoia would’ve lead me to blacken any shiny metal just like them.
As far as I remember/understand, "black" finished knives started as military knives/bayonets with a "parkerized" finish (phosphate finish made by dipping in hot phosphoric acid) in WW II. The phosphate finish was primarily to reduce corrosion of non-stainless steel. It also made items dull and non-reflective. An oiled phosphate finish reduces corrosion reasonably well and is much more robust than bluing.
Black epoxy paint came along and got adopted for protecting non-stainless steel as a cost savings. (It is cheaper to paint than to maintain a tank containing hot acid.) I think I saw black protective paint on knives starting in the 80's. I don't remember when it became cool to paint stainless steel black.
Black epoxy paint came along and got adopted for protecting non-stainless steel as a cost savings. (It is cheaper to paint than to maintain a tank containing hot acid.) I think I saw black protective paint on knives starting in the 80's. I don't remember when it became cool to paint stainless steel black.
I agree with tltt. World War I is the first war that I recall reading about in which issued combat knives were purposely subdued, though I suspect that tiguy7 is closer to the truth about when the practice actually began. Clandestine attacks are as old as warfare itself. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Mosby's Raiders and even Marion's Men and Rogers' Rangers before them were blacking out their bladeware.
-Steve
-Steve
on the m1905 bayonet
9:40
see article
https://www.popernack.com/library/GcaM1GarandBayonetsFall2009.pdf
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Back in the late 1970s, I went with my dad to a military surplus store and he let me get two knives there; a Japanese-made Ka-Bar clone and a bayonet. Both blades were blackened (was it
parkerized?). They were carbon steel blades, and the finish was pretty durable. Actually, for a Ka-Bar clone, the lookalike was pretty decent quality. Both knives were bought at that store for only like $5 apiece. I don’t know how old they were at the time I bought them, but they were in new condition, so military knives were being made with blackened blades well before the ‘80s.
Jim
parkerized?). They were carbon steel blades, and the finish was pretty durable. Actually, for a Ka-Bar clone, the lookalike was pretty decent quality. Both knives were bought at that store for only like $5 apiece. I don’t know how old they were at the time I bought them, but they were in new condition, so military knives were being made with blackened blades well before the ‘80s.
Jim
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possibly zinc phosphate coating .
http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_14.htm
zinc phosphate coating has a gray color finish.
manganese phosphate coating a darker
charcoal colored finish.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkerizing
http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_14.htm
zinc phosphate coating has a gray color finish.
manganese phosphate coating a darker
charcoal colored finish.
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I recall reading that during the design or first few production runs, Fairbairn or Sykes (whichever one was a cop in Hong Kong), WANTED the knives to be shiny. He figured that if you were going to fight with a man, you might as well intimidate him with the glint of his immanent doom.I bet it was one of these.
I think that after a while, they changed to blackened blades for a more stealthy approach, but I have no idea if this was the first knife to have a black blade.
What they were soothing up on those M1 .30 Garands from talking with WW2 Vets first hand was the ears & post etc on the front site & the apochure and adjustment knobs on the rear sight. Any gleam there could put off your target sighting day or night.