When is it a.Seax vs Wharncliffe or??

[19-3ben]

It's a seax when "dirty wharncliffe" doesn't sound nearly as good!

 

[Hammer67]

Both terms are thrown around liberally these days - too liberally, in my opinion (kind of like "puukko").

Historically, this is a "wharncliffe" blade:

Note that it has a completely straight edge, and it comes to a point at a much lower angle than a traditional sheepsfoot. Basically anything other than this should be properly called a "modified wharncliffe."

A "Seax" is not a specific blade shape. It is a term for a historical type of knife used throughout northern Europe, and actually varied in blade form a fair bit - some were similar to a traditional wharncliffe, with a straight edge, some had more belly to them.

I tend to land on the side that thinks that proper terminology matters. Water down a term too much, use it too often inappropriately, and it can become confusing and/or meaningless. My .02.

 

[19-3ben]

Both terms are thrown around liberally these days - too liberally, in my opinion (kind of like "puukko").

Quite right. And I think we can easily include sheepsfoot on that same list.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Based on what I’ve read, Seax is a name given to a type of bladed tool more than a specific blade shape.

Wharnecliff blades are, traditionally, a very specific blade shape. Not whatever nonsense modern makers call wharnecliff.

ETA: what smithhammer said!

 

[EngrSorenson]

This thread needs more pictures of real wharncliffs.

 

[norcalAF]

I wonder if the Earl was opening a lot of packages...

Nah, but his dudes were!

 

[norcalAF]

The folder is definitely a Wharncliffe.

The others are definite Seax blades, although the one I made with the antler handle is better than the Pakistan one bought off Amazon.

What's the ZT model number?

 

[David Mary]

I tend to land on the side that thinks that proper terminology matters.

Likewise, though in the end, given the virtually infinite variations possible with the lines and curves of a blade profile, we'd ultimately end up using "modified" before an awful lot of words, so I think the trend of more inclusive use is inevitable.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Likewise, though in the end, given the virtually infinite variations possible with the lines and curves of a blade profile, we'd ultimately end up using "modified" before an awful lot of words, so I think the trend of more inclusive use is inevitable.

And I also fall in this camp, but when I think of the essence of "sheepsfoot", "coping", "lambsfoot" or "Wharncliffe", I think straight edges. Personally, its the most important feature of all of those blades.

Modified this, that and the other thing, but sometimes it's like saying a 30-06 is a modified .22 LR.

But whatever- I just like to argue. As long as people keep making my beloved traditional straight, pointy blade shapes I'll be a happy camper.

 

[David Mary]

Modified this, that and the other thing, but sometimes it's like saying a 30-06 is a modified .22 LR.

It is.

 

[Olumin]

- Wharncliff blades, more often then not, have the spine curve downwards to meet the tip. A Seax really has more of a clip-point blade, at least stereotypically.

- Wharncliff is a blade shape, a Seax is a type of historical knife or short sword.

- A Seax is an antique, historical item. Reproductions can be Seax-like, but are not a Seax.

- A Seax is always a fixed blade, usually on the larger end.

- A Seax, usually, has a partial or full length stick-tang construction, rather then having a full profile tang. They also usually lack a hand guard.

Looking at historical museum examples of Seax, the size & blade shape varies greatly between examples. "Seax" isn't a uniform or clearly definable term. They vary far more then most Bowie knives do, and that's already a hard enough to define term.

 

[tony281sc2]

What's the ZT model number?

That would be the limited edition 0392PURBLKWC, short for purple/black Wharncliffe. It was a limited edition that came out around 2016. Very rare. ZT used actual Hinderer hardware for all the 0392s (not to be confused with the production 0393), and they had better fit/finish & tuning than other ZTs, so I’ve heard. Similar in many ways to the recent drop of Hinderer Eklipse Wharncliffes. But the ZT is worth way more $$$$ in the same condition, probably double (and full titanium).

 

[norcalAF]

That would be the limited edition 0392PURBLKWC, short for purple/black Wharncliffe. It was a limited edition that came out around 2016. Very rare. ZT used actual Hinderer hardware for all the 0392s (not to be confused with the production 0393), and they had better fit/finish & tuning than other ZTs, so I’ve heard. Similar in many ways to the recent drop of Hinderer Eklipse Wharncliffes. But the ZT is worth way more $$$$ in the same condition, (and full titanium).

Thanks for breaking my heart.

 

[tony281sc2]

Thanks for breaking my heart.

Well….Hinderer just dropped a bunch of Eklipse Wharncliffes. Like 2 drops in the last month I believe. And you can still find titanium scales for the Eklipse. So you can build your own Hinderer for less than the ZT would cost you on the secondary…. It just probably will not be black

 

[353]

- Wharncliff blades, more often then not, have the spine curve downwards to meet the tip. A Seax really has more of a clip-point blade, at least stereotypically.

- Wharncliff is a blade shape, a Seax is a type of historical knife or short sword.

- A Seax is an antique, historical item. Reproductions can be Seax-like, but are not a Seax.

- A Seax is always a fixed blade, usually on the larger end.

- A Seax, usually, has a partial or full length stick-tang construction, rather then having a full profile tang. They also usually lack a hand guard.

Looking at historical museum examples of Seax, the size & blade shape varies greatly between examples. "Seax" isn't a uniform or clearly definable term. They vary far more then most Bowie knives do, and that's already a hard enough to define term.

This

And as we all know the seax also most often have the distinct angled cut of at the end.

 

[EngrSorenson]

This

And as we all know the seax also most often have the distinct angled cut of at the end.

So all seax ends abruptly?

19-3ben can you confirm?

 

[Olumin]

So all seax ends abruptly?

"most often" doesn't equal always. Reference the graph I linked above. No, not all of them did. Seax were used for over 1000 years, there is bound to be great variety & exceptions to almost every rule.

 

[Arathol]

So all seax ends abruptly?

19-3ben can you confirm?

No, most do not in fact. As has been said before, "seax" just means knife.......The blades with the angled cut on the end are mostly a variation found in the British Isles...the rest of Europe not so much at all.

 

[EngrSorenson]

...

 

[19-3ben]

So all seax ends abruptly?

19-3ben can you confirm?

There are, of course, different styles of seax, and everyone will have their own preference, but I find it best when unwavering right to the end. Some seax will gradually taper toward the end, but I fail to see the functional benefit of that. If you wield your seax well, it can remain strong to the end.

No, most do not in fact. As has been said before, "seax" just means knife.......The blades with the angled cut on the end are mostly a variation found in the British Isles...the rest of Europe not so much at all.

So the Brits cut off their Seax a little early? I've heard it said before, but never got confirmation that it was a uniquely British thing.