when is it sold.

JTknives

JTknives

Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
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when is a knife considered sold. like say you get an email about a knife your selling and thay say thay are interested but have some questions. you email them back and then you get another email from another person saying thay will take it and where do thay send the money. but the first person has not emailed you back yet. who gets it? do you wait or sell it to the first person that says ill take it. i dont want to shaft people just want to be fair.
 
first person to give you the money
I have had people back out in all kinds of transactions and sometimes it really screws you over.

if someone says sold tell them 1st person with the money in your hand gets the product

its only fair unless you have a previous establishment with this person and know they will pay
 
When I was selling knives here before, I would sell them to the first person that says "I'll take it". If you post some kind of rules on this matter with the knife you are selling, then you will have no problems.
 
response to the tread or PM/email gets them in order i will post pending then sold when paypal hits of MO gets here then ship
 
Inquiries are just that. They are expressing an interest in your work.

The first person to say; "I'll take it" is the potential buyer. You can post; sale pending, until you receive the money.
Go to the next person, if the first one backs out. It does happen, but not often. I always contact interested parties and let them know what the status of the sale is, so they do not feel left out. It is just good public relations.:cool:

Fred
 
The first person to contact you about the knife, gets first chance at it. The second person receives an email/phone call that a sale on the knife is pending with another customer, and if they do not take the knife, then the second person gets it. This is an area where you have to tread lightly. If you tell two potential customers "First one with money in my hand gets it", then that shows a lack of integrity on your part, and leaves a sour taste in the mouth of the individual who did not get the knife. I will usually let at least a week go by, waiting on the payment or contact from the client. Then if no payment shows up in the mail/paypal, or I receive no contact, I will make another attempt to contact the client and tell them that unless I receive payment, or they contact me by a specific date, the second individual will get the knife. Each situation is different, and you will have to rely on good judgment, and sometimes a gut instinct. The main thing is that you do not want to alienate someone who is a potential client, just for the sake of a quick sale.
 
Jarod, this is a complicated problem that I still struggle with. These days there seems to be a race or contest anytime I post a new blade on my available page. I have had a mere 4 minutes between e-mails determine who gets first dibs. After dealing with the situation you described I have had many mishaps. While it is not always fair some people do end up getting an edge on snatching up the piece simply by the network of communication and transactions they have established with me by many purchases in the past, but then that is quite fair in regards to rewarding good customers.

The bottom line is that cash talks and everything else walks, the knife is NEVER sold until the cash, not check, or credits or numbers on paper, but real cash is sitting safely in your bank account. Also give the person appropriate time to conquer any buyers remorse before spending any of that money, and keep good receipts and documentation, even if they don’t want it- you will want it. I no longer ship with just a deposited check after an incident 2 years ago when I waited 10 days, shipped and then got notice that the check was bad, and it turned out this guy had burned a couple of other knifemakers.

How I have handled the contest to claim a knife dilemma is to take the first e-mail and let him know that he is first in line for the knife, the second guy is told in very clear terms that he is second in line and will have dibs should the first guy not come through, a third space can be included if needed but it rarely gets beyond that. This pending lineup is how things stand until real cash is in your bank account, then all concerned are notified that the knife is officially sold. It is also a nice touch and consolation to drop the second place guy a heads up e-mail the next time you have a knife available, he wanted to be good to you, the next time give him the opportunity to do so.

I developed this method after having a couple of characters say they wanted the knife and would get back with me on how they could pay for it, and in the meantime I told other interested parties that the knife was sold and lost their business only to have the first jokers not get back with me. At this point I need to advertise the knife twice as hard to let the market know it is really still available. I still get inquiries on available pieces from some of those jokers but you can understand how they are not on the list for a heads up courtesy e-mail.

There are worse “is it sold” scenarios however. The one I still struggle with, and it is horrible, is when a customer at the blade show picks up a $1,500 piece and says they want to walk the show and will be back later to pick it up, no cash is exchanged and in the meantime two other guys throw cash on your table for it! AHHHH!:eek::grumpy: I have ran through the blade show twice now to find that guy who I feel deserves the benefit of the doubt before selling a blade out from underneath him, but the scary thing is that they almost always say “Oh let them have it then, I found something else I like”. What the hell would happen if you turned folks away only to have that first guy back out at the end of the show and you go home with an unsold knife and a whole lot of show expense?

I would like to take this opportunity to tell show goers not to do this to makers! If you want a piece put cash on the table and ask the makers to hold it for you. I am getting too old to do the Blade Show dash while a person stands in front of my table with fifteen $100 bills in their hand! I feel in the future I need to tell people that the knife is for sale until the cash is in my pocket, but do you know how hard this is to do with somebody you have built a working relationship with?

It may sound like I am being too nice about it, but have you ever seen what happens when you just sell that knife they wanted you to hold? Many times I have seen a very ugly and loud encounter at a show when the customer returns to find that knife he asked to be held has sold. Please people this is not fair to us makers at all!
Do any other makers have a problem, or better yet a solution with this "is it sold" dilemma as well?
 
Very very good post Kevin. A lot of things that I didnt think of, since i've never sold stuff online / not in person before.

One thing which I have done though is sell items at the equivalent of a show (in this case it was collectable cards, not knives, but similar in terms of dealing with customers) One thing that I had prominently on a sign was that I would not hold cards without a non refundable 10% down, that way if at the end of the day someone ends up not buying what they made me hold, I havent lost out totaly, and the customer had an incentive to come back and finish the purchase. Now talking about 100$ cards not 1500$ knives this could be a bit different, as 10% of 1500 is a lot harder to justify than 10$, but I could see something at least similar working to prevent "hold that for me" from burning the maker selling their wares.
 
Kevin you are dead nuts on, I had the same thing happen with a show goer and went home with a knife after I turned hard cash paying folks away:(. I recently built a one off prototype for a person, it was a memorial knife for a fallen soldier in Iraq. They wanted me to do the full run possibly about 2 hundred knives, I used my better judgement and backed out of the project but still built the proto that I committed too. I gave a otherwise great deal selling a knife that should have sold for about $600.00 to 700.00 dollors for $300.00 and shipped it before payment that was 7 to 8 weeks ago....guess what I have received no payment and this guys was regarded as a friend?

So like Kevin says when you have cold hard cash in the vault the deal is mostly done, like stated you have to wait out the buyer remorse on the more expensive pieces.

Great thread but it gets my blood pressure up
Spencer
 
Kevin...

I feel your pain!! I've been down that same road, holding a piece that the person never came back for, even getting cussed out by one individual who did the same thing to me at Blade, even after I told him the piece would remain for sale until the transaction was completed. After that incident I now just flat tell people, long time customers or not, that the knife is for sale until I have the money in my pocket, and they are waling away with it. I consider internet sales just as you spoke of. A prime example for me is the way I sell my EBKs. When a batch is ready, a mass email goes out, and the date/time stamps on the replies are used to determine who gets them. If someone doesn't come through with payment, their name is dropped from the list, and before it goes back on, they have to give me a good explanation.

This makes me think of another type of scenario that I have experienced a few times..... An individual calls to order a knife. I take the time to ensure that we get all the details lined out, and fill out my order log. Then the phone rings the next day, and its the same individual wanting to make changes, which is OK too, but the problem occurs when I get 2-3 calls from the same individual every week, wanting to change this or that about the order. Where I get irritated is when the individual keeps "upping" the order in terms of materials, labor, and time, and then thinks they shouldn't have to pay for it, because "You quoted me $XXXX when we started!" Oh yea, it happens more than you would think. Most recently I had an individual start out with a simple drop point hunter of 52100, and within 4 months it had gone to a Mosaic San-Mai hunter, with green fossil ivory. Every time the order would change, and I would tell the individual it would be $XXX more, I'd get the third degree about the price, and the old "Well if its that much for XXX, then how much would it be for XXX?" I would always try to be nice, even though I got very tired of being badgered during each conversation about why costs increased with each "upgrade". I finally decided to just hold off on the order until I was sure all the changes where done. To be honest, I suspect that no matter what I did, if I delivered a knife to this individual, it would be nothing but a headache, so I waited to see if I would ever hear from him again. Finally the individual left an irate message, mad that his knife was not done, and canceling the order. Right or wrong, I was glad that I did not deliver him a knife, as I suspect it would be something I would have regretted. Sometimes, with some individuals, the money isn't worth the anguish it would create.
 
I know at least one maker who charges an a$$hole fee, every time a customer calls them for a 'change' or 'upgrade' they add X$ more for the upgrade then it would have cost had they asked for it in the first place, and X increases every time they get contacted again.

Personally I'm of the opinion (now take this with a grain of salt because I'm not a knife collector, I dont care if knives I get appreciate in value or any of that crap, even though I love and collect knives) that the greatest way to get the best work from someone would be to say "here's my budget, I want this style (e.g. damascus hunter, carbon bowie, whatever), go wild with whatever you want to do"

-Justin

P.S. my knife collector comment is not intended as a slight, and there's a totaly different argument there for a different thread on a different subforum here. I've been berrated and yelled at by enough 'collectors' before that I just dont claim to be a "collector of knives" anymore to avoid the hastles. Leave it at the fact that I appreciate knives and collect them.
 
FWIW, when I want to buy something, but cannot pick it up at the moment, or am not positive I am going to need it(like have to check sizing, etc.) I leave a decent deposit, and ask the seller to hold the item for a short period of time. I leave say 10%, and ask them to hold the item for an hour or two, or a day, whatever is reasonable for that particular object. I tell them that if I am not back within that time period, to keep my deposit and resell the item. That way I know it is mine, as long as I come back within the time stated, and if I don't, they are not out too much.
It seems like the same could be done at a show. 10% down, and I will hold it for 3 hrs. Then when you have other potential buyers, you can mention that it is on hold for the next xx minutes. If they are there, and the buyer does not show up, it is theirs. I don't think this is unreasonable, as I often put myself in this situation. YMMV.
 
If you're selling over the internet, first "I'll buy it" gets the sale, if they provide payment within a reasonable time. I would clearly state this policy, along with the forms of payment you'll accept, and the time limit for payment. (I accept money orders within 2 weeks, or whatever). If you have multiple buyers, you can make a priority list in case the first person falls through. People making inquiries may never actually intend on buying. If they are really interested, they can always place an order for something similar.

At a show, I wouldn't hold a knife without full payment. This may seem a bit harsh, but it's the easiest system for you. Taking a deposit also works, but then you have to keep track of more details and still risk not making the sale. If you choose to take deposits, I would set them to end some time before the show is over - i.e. if you don't complete the sale beforehand, the knife goes on sale at lunch on the last day or 2 hours before the show ends or whatever. That way, other interested buyers know when to come back.
 
I had an odd situation happen this weekend. Buyer posts that they sent an offer via email for a reduced price for both knives. I counter offered less than 5 minutes after and heard nothing back. 2 hours later I posted still available. The next day, two separate buyers purchased both knives for full price. PayPal'd the money and I considered them sold. At about 8pm that day, the original buyer sent an email accepting the counter offer but I had already sold the knives. They were of course upset and said that "they don't live on the computer and I should have waited". I responded that generally "making offers" is not accepted from past experience with this forum, but I had two more like models on the bench and that when they were finished, I would offer them first dibs. The response was an educational email about how knifemaker's are bad at selling and not very good businessmen, they are "arteests" (artists). We lead a meager lifestyle while they, as professional business people, lead a very comfortable life. This just rubbed me raw and I wouldn't sell them a knife if they offered me top dollar frankly.
 
My experiance isnt with knifesales

its all in person re-sellling cars and car parts and so on

all the time I would get 5 people telling me they want it but dont have the money, and they would come back and buy it later

very rarely would people comeback and sometimes i would hold stuff
for people that never showed the money
I would end up flat broke paying bills on my credit card,

honestly if you put your (email adress) paypal account in the thread and state that when the money is in your account will get the knife its fairly reasonable, I would think
unless you agree to hold it which is also perfectly reasonable,

it should be up to the seller, either way is reasonable I would think.

But business is business if this were a store they will hold for a day usually if you ask, and then its up for sale, some wont hold things period.

but if someone is generally going out of there way to contact you, you should probley listen
 
i have had lots of emails on my coffin bowie. all where just an im intersited what is its size. but i did get one offer for lower than i was asking then to day i got an "i will take it" email. i cant afford to wait to see if the first people realy want it.
 
Jarod, I would say in that situation an offer for less than the asking price is not the same as an "I'll take it" at the full asking price.
Sending you an email that says I will pay you $100 for a knife when you are asking 200 for it does not give me any right to the knife. If you e-mail the guy back and say "it's yours for $100" then some one else offers more money after you have told the first guy he gets it then that is not fair to the guy you told could have it for the reduced price.

My advice for when some one offers less than the asking price would be to email them back and say that it is still for sale at the full asking price and you will contact them if you change your mind, or give a counter offer closer to what you want for it.

An offer at a lower price is not the same as I will take it for the full asking price. It is simply a counter offer (until and unless you accept that lower price offer it entitles them to nothing).
 
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