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When is the Extrema Ratio RAO vs. 4-Max test coming out?
- Thread starter evilgreg
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IMO the RAO is such a horrible, impractical design at such a ridiculous price that it wouldn't matter if it won in the first place.
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Would love seeing the Rao being tested.
The 4Max which is in a similar price class will probably win at only 2oz less and using better materials and probably lock design.
CS itself even claims the 4Max is the strongest folder out there.
And even if the Rao turns out stronger the triad is way more practical and thus at least the strongest practical design.
If it was just about lockstrength one could simply design a folder with a few more pins or thicker pins. [emoji2]
The 4Max which is in a similar price class will probably win at only 2oz less and using better materials and probably lock design.
CS itself even claims the 4Max is the strongest folder out there.
And even if the Rao turns out stronger the triad is way more practical and thus at least the strongest practical design.
If it was just about lockstrength one could simply design a folder with a few more pins or thicker pins. [emoji2]
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Not to you maybe. But I'd love to see it tested. Talk about the 800 pound gorilla in the living room . . .
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I have no doubt the RAO would pass the spine whack, overstrike, and weight hang tests, but I think the 4-MAX would still be snug and lock up properly in the end, while the RAO may potentially not. To make things more interesting, they could test 2 RAOs, one with the bolt installed and one without, and see what difference it would make. I know it's designed to be used with the bolt installed during hard use, but it would be interesting to see how it would do relying on the internal lock only. I welcome any tests CS wants to do, regardless of outcome. I know many see no value in their tests, but they are interesting to me. :thumbup:
[video=youtube;QiBtHGfgZLI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiBtHGfgZLI[/video]
[video=youtube;QiBtHGfgZLI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiBtHGfgZLI[/video]
I hope they do it under the supervision of neutral parties, with a live audience, live streamed on their website. That way nobody can make any bs up or whine about the methods/validity. If Cold Steel is bold enough to do that, win or lose, I'll buy my first Cold Steel in a long time.
I haven't had either knife, but I have used the Triad on the Rajah 2 and found it perfectly easy to manipulate. The RAO's lock looks absolutely impractical. When it takes two hands and a long time to lock a knife completely, the simple fact is that it's unlikely you will be able/mindful enough to lock it fully in a stressful situation. A lock that you can't engage intuitively is worthless, no matter what claims the company makes of it being a "real fixed blade".
The above isn't a criticism of anyone who has or wants an RAO. I have no qualms with people wanting ridiculous/overbuilt/etc things, I get that they're cool in their own way. I just think the lock is pretty silly, and not the solution that the company touts it as.
I haven't had either knife, but I have used the Triad on the Rajah 2 and found it perfectly easy to manipulate. The RAO's lock looks absolutely impractical. When it takes two hands and a long time to lock a knife completely, the simple fact is that it's unlikely you will be able/mindful enough to lock it fully in a stressful situation. A lock that you can't engage intuitively is worthless, no matter what claims the company makes of it being a "real fixed blade".
The above isn't a criticism of anyone who has or wants an RAO. I have no qualms with people wanting ridiculous/overbuilt/etc things, I get that they're cool in their own way. I just think the lock is pretty silly, and not the solution that the company touts it as.
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That video test was of a Chinese clone as far as I can tell and some in the comments say that too.
I don't know enough about Extrema Ratio to tell. What's the evidence for that? I can see it being true, but I can also see bottominjured fanboys calling foul when their "real fixed blade" doesn't perform how they think it should. Not passing judgement, just asking if there's evidence either way.
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Agreed the RAO is no where near the ease of use of the tri ad lock. Even if the tri ad lock lost, the RAO knife is still overpriced and impractical.
The only reason this RAO knife is brought up is because all other locks have a hard time comparing to the tri ad lock in durability tests.
If people have to ask for a test against a knife that uses a solid bolt to hold it open to beat the tri ad lock, that tells you how strong the tri ad lock is.
I don't care if they never test the RAO knife, cold steel will make $ regardless and keep the haters crying. Win win.
The only reason this RAO knife is brought up is because all other locks have a hard time comparing to the tri ad lock in durability tests.
If people have to ask for a test against a knife that uses a solid bolt to hold it open to beat the tri ad lock, that tells you how strong the tri ad lock is.
I don't care if they never test the RAO knife, cold steel will make $ regardless and keep the haters crying. Win win.
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Part of the lock per se, no, but an optional reinforcement for the lock that is part of the knife's design, yes. Given that it's part of the design, I think the knife should be tested as such (in its toughest potential state you might say). However, the pin/bolt not being an integral part of the lock is the reason I suggest testing it both ways. If the pin/bolt is lost, forgotten, etc. (like if someone didn't want the lanyard and pin hanging from the knife all the time, so they carried it separately), it'd be interesting to see how the lock would fare on it's own.
edit: There were a couple posts made while I was writing this one. Jens, I wasn't aware that was the case. Sorry about that.
I just remembered seeing the video posted here before. If it was a clone, please ignore the video. 
I hope it was a clone. I've always found the RAO an interesting design, and that would make me feel a lot better about it. 
edit: There were a couple posts made while I was writing this one. Jens, I wasn't aware that was the case. Sorry about that.
I just remembered seeing the video posted here before. If it was a clone, please ignore the video. I hope it was a clone. I've always found the RAO an interesting design, and that would make me feel a lot better about it. The 4 Max also has a slot for a pin, the same design feature as the RAO without the bungied-on-the-butt pin.
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I see the hole but where did you find it is designed for a pin to hold the blade open? Link?
I don't have a link right now, and just started home, but I'll look. I believe Demko said so, but it might have been a general comment on his knives with the holes in the guard.
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Thanks I wasn't sure what the hole was there for. Could be interesting if they throw a pin in the 4max for the RAO test if it ever happens.
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Looks like you're correct. That didn't even occur to me.
I wonder if the MAX will come with a pin? In any case, that makes things even more interesting. :thumbup:Absolutely agree, and that's what amuses me in the Sebenza / few other threads here.
Technically speaking, you can just drill a hole in any knife and claim that that's the "super strong, fixed-blade-like locking system".
Hole with an external pin you need to screw in manually is not a mechanism.
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Yes, exactly what i think. If you see a stop pin you have to insert separately as a locking mechanism you could also deliver the knife with a welding device and an angle grinder to lock|unlock
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If I look at the official definition of a machine or mechanism a screw in pin would easily fall within that.
Crude mechanism for sure but still a mechanism.
More elegant would be if the pin would be spring loaded and jumps in automatically once the hole swings by but even then it would need some kind of manual release.
You're probably right regarding the mechanism; I am not an engineer and wouldn't know to tell that honestly
I was just commenting from "rational" point of view. At least something that is rational to me.