When should a maker Cancel an order?

[Don Hanson III]

Don, when you gona have my knife ready? Hun, Hun

It'll take more than that to get canceled, Kevin

Coop makes a good point. I've made knives that I really didn't want to, but because I said I would, I completed the deal. Many times.

It takes an awful lot to get me riled up and I go out of my way to make my customers happy. But a couple times, I was just pushed too far.

 

[blgoode]

good thread guys :thumbup:

 

[tntbegg]

Is it appropriate for the maker to cancel an order under the following circumstances:

Maker is just starting out, new kid on the block(doesn't have to be a new guy though) and takes an order for a knife, a knife which is part of his standard lineup. Things start to explode for the maker in terms of orders, demand, shows, etc.etc. Maker also goes through a huge spike in skills, abilities, equipment allowing more complex techniques to be used. A year or so goes by before that order comes up on the work bench. Maker considers it a model below his current skills and abilities. Customer still wants that exact knife. Maker considers it going backwards, and not indicative of what he can do currently. Also, in an honest self critique, original knife is not of the best construction, some elements are poorly carried out, and maker would be embarrassed to have another knife like it floating around in todays market......however,it was the best he could do at that time. Maker wants to cancel that order, make something more commiserate with his current abilities, style, and construction. Customer refuses and wants the original model. What does maker do?

Here is a real life example from Todd. Five years ago he made some Corian and Packawood handled knives (don't say a WORD!!! everyone starts somewhere!!). He took an order for one of them, but in the few months after taking the order was schooled by industry successes, that using those handle materials were for beginners and serious makers need to move past them.( Ok. don't get side tracked on a is Corian or packawood ok to use on a knife!) So long story short, from the time the order was accepted to the time Todd was ready to make the knife...a whole lot had changed. Todd didn't, doesn't and won't make said knife in its original design and materials. Customer wants it though. We canceled the order. Customer wasn't happy, but took it well.

I had to cancel an order this week in an unrelated matter and it got me to thinking about makers canceling period.

Tanya Begg

 

[Bill Tuch]

Making one of a kind knives like I do, I found it hard to take orders at all. What I am realizing is that instead of taking orders for knives, I can take a reservation for a time slot. Then speak to them about what I have coming up in that time or what type of materials do they like or blade shape, etc. This way I am still able to progress my art without going backwards and still satisfy the collector.
In your case I think building knives that you have since moved on from would actually do a dis-service to those who own that particular style knife. One of the things that will allow the value to go up is that......you can't get one made anymore and if you want one, you'll just have to go out and pay the asking price on the secondary market, thus increasing the value of desired models for those who own them.
Just my thoughts anyway.
Bill

 

[Lorien]

thanks for the story. I like reading about experiences when it comes to this stuff. Good lessons in there:thumbup:

 

[Daniel]

It is certainly a maker's prerogative to cancel an order or to even refuse to accept doing a specific knife in the first place.

However, I have to disagree with the notion that if a maker has moved on in his expertise to complete an order that he/she originally accepted in good faith. It is acceptable to speak with the customer and find out if he would be interested in a different knife of better construction and materials, but if the customer insists that the original order be filled, then the maker should make good on the original order.

If the maker is unable to make the original knife due to unforeseen circumstances or unavailable materials, the maker can also offer a substitution in the original order.

It is a matter of good customer service. I have not had this happen, but if it were to happen to me, I would not be very happy with the maker and probably not be favorable to that maker in the future.

The one thing that many makers could do a better job in communicating with their customers and keeping them apprised of the progress or orders backlog. I know that it is difficult to give and exact date of delivery, but waiting 4 years for a knife that was estimated to take one year without hearing anything from the maker is frustrating. Maybe a heads up every 6 months or so?

 

[blgoode]

oh - I actually cancealed an order also. I was working on a knife for a guy and everything went as planned. He received the knife and was happy.....then he said "Okay, now I want this one...". I have a wait list and normally make multiple knives for someone at 1 time while I am working on their job so to speak.

I went ahead and made him that 2nd kife and when it was finished he stopped responding to emails.......I let him know my 4 week rule and it is actually a knife I will have at the blade show in atlanta.

Then about 4 months later he popped up asking when I would be working on ANOTHER model of knife for him. Well......he is on the when orders are finished I will get to him list and gladly explained why:thumbup:

Aint my fault he chose to be wishy washy.

 

[David Schott]

oh - I actually cancealed an order also. I was working on a knife for a guy and everything went as planned. He received the knife and was happy.....then he said "Okay, now I want this one...". I have a wait list and normally make multiple knives for someone at 1 time while I am working on their job so to speak.

I went ahead and made him that 2nd kife and when it was finished he stopped responding to emails.......I let him know my 4 week rule and it is actually a knife I will have at the blade show in atlanta.

Then about 4 months later he popped up asking when I would be working on ANOTHER model of knife for him. Well......he is on the when orders are finished I will get to him list and gladly explained why:thumbup:

Aint my fault he chose to be wishy washy.

I don't think I would even let him back on the list...he left you high and dry and possibly with a knife you wouldn't have made otherwise. I wouldn't re-order from a company that screwed me in the past and the same goes for customers.

 

[blgoode]

I don't think I would even let him back on the list...he left you high and dry and possibly with a knife you wouldn't have made otherwise. I wouldn't re-order from a company that screwed me in the past and the same goes for customers.

Beauty is that if I do a job for him....he will pay up front Wont be a loss again.....

He is actually only customer #2 that I have this marked by his name. I dont honestly feel I will make him anything but if he waits the expected 2 years, i figure he has earned it

 

[Don Hanson III]

Tanya, I think you guys should fill that old knife order. I let a number of orders fall way behind, because I had moved on to 'bigger and better' stuff. But the unfinished orders were always in the back of my mind and bugging me. I finally finished them all and was like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. Was a good feeling :thumbup:

 

[stephanfowler]

Todd didn't, doesn't and won't make said knife in its original design and materials. Customer wants it though.

Tanya Begg

Got any interesting concept techniques you've been looking to try out??

seems like a great time to sell the customer on a slightly prototype remake of an oldie.

 

[martinr]

Tanya, I think you guys should fill that old knife order. I let a number of orders fall way behind, because I had moved on to 'bigger and better' stuff. But the unfinished orders were always in the back of my mind and bugging me. I finally finished them all and was like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. Was a good feeling :thumbup:

i agree. in addition, your skills are always improving so if you have a fairly long lead time for your knives you will always have something "bigger and better" in the future. in my business i tend to put off what i don't want to do, but don is right, when i get those things taken care of i feel much better.

 

[blad5]

If I place an order for a maker's particular model, I would expect that knife to be made at the agreed to price. I also would expect that the maker's ability to improve over time. And because of that improvement, the maker can reasonably expect to receive a higher return on his knives. But he should honor his previous commitment to me. Otherwise, he/she should not take my order, because making my knife would entail a lower return than on a current knife.

Paul

 

[WyoNonSmith]

"Maker is just starting out, new kid on the block(doesn't have to be a new guy though) and takes an order for a knife, a knife which is part of his standard lineup. Things start to explode for the maker in terms of orders, demand, shows, etc.etc. Maker also goes through a huge spike in skills, abilities, equipment allowing more complex techniques to be used. A year or so goes by before that order comes up on the work bench. Maker considers it a model below his current skills and abilities. Customer still wants that exact knife. Maker considers it going backwards, and not indicative of what he can do currently. Also, in an honest self critique, original knife is not of the best construction, some elements are poorly carried out, and maker would be embarrassed to have another knife like it floating around in todays market......however,it was the best he could do at that time. Maker wants to cancel that order, make something more commiserate with his current abilities, style, and construction. Customer refuses and wants the original model. What does maker do?"

Tanya...make the knife. Period. If you want to do it with your improved skills and technique, and equipment...go ahead. If you want to make a better knife, but along same lines...go ahead. But, you should charge what you agreed to in the first place. I can't see how a knife buyer can complain about that.

Knifemaking on a scale where you are taking orders is a business...under promise and over deliver and you won't have a problem.

I have a friend who traded a few folders for a gun a few years ago. He is now making the knives...his folders are now a lot worth more than they were at the time of the trade. He says "tough tittie", a deal's a deal and he is making them at a lost opportunity cost. That's straight up business and upholding your word.

As has been said here, but not quite so succinctly...Sometimes you just have to suck it up and take care of business.

 

[spyken]

All good points there.

I had a maker cancel an order on me - it was a forged blade but the maker no longer forges and does stock removal. He didn't tell me, when I enquired after waiting for more than one year, he said sorry, he no longer forges.

I would've really appreciated if he offered me a stock removal blade according to the agreed design and price. But he didn't. That kinda sucked.

 

[martinr]

"Maker is just starting out, new kid on the block(doesn't have to be a new guy though) and takes an order for a knife, a knife which is part of his standard lineup. Things start to explode for the maker in terms of orders, demand, shows, etc.etc. Maker also goes through a huge spike in skills, abilities, equipment allowing more complex techniques to be used. A year or so goes by before that order comes up on the work bench. Maker considers it a model below his current skills and abilities. Customer still wants that exact knife. Maker considers it going backwards, and not indicative of what he can do currently. Also, in an honest self critique, original knife is not of the best construction, some elements are poorly carried out, and maker would be embarrassed to have another knife like it floating around in todays market......however,it was the best he could do at that time. Maker wants to cancel that order, make something more commiserate with his current abilities, style, and construction. Customer refuses and wants the original model. What does maker do?"

Tanya...make the knife. Period. If you want to do it with your improved skills and technique, and equipment...go ahead. If you want to make a better knife, but along same lines...go ahead. But, you should charge what you agreed to in the first place. I can't see how a knife buyer can complain about that.

Knifemaking on a scale where you are taking orders is a business...under promise and over deliver and you won't have a problem.

I have a friend who traded a few folders for a gun a few years ago. He is now making the knives...his folders are now a lot worth more than they were at the time of the trade. He says "tough tittie", a deal's a deal and he is making them at a lost opportunity cost. That's straight up business and upholding your word.

As has been said here, but not quite so succinctly...Sometimes you just have to suck it up and take care of business.

very well said. the buyer could have bought something else if he knew you were going to cancel on him. now if he places an order with another maker he gets to start waiting all over again. not fair.

 

[butcher_block]

im in the its not what the knife is made of more of what the maker puts into the knife.

its your skill as a maker not the steel or handle scales and if its what the buyer orders they will be happy with the extra skill learned when the time comes to make there knife
if you do just the steel $ lets see 1084 3$ a Lb cpm154 15$ Lb cpm10v $85 but what would it matter if you didn't use it right or could not heat treat it the right way
this said im hunting and killing the last of my file knives i have but 3 to deal with any more and i ll have to trade to get them back in the shop (least all my other knives i did the heat treat on )