When Tom Krein meets a Benchmade...

[thombrogan]

Knifemaker/Sheathmaker Tom Krein recently reground the edge of my Benchmade 145HS Nimravus Cub. He also made an amazing pancake-style kydex sheath for it (not pictured). It is amazing.

So far, it only cut the box that sent it home, but I have some work planned for it this weekend (some trees are going to stop bullying my yard).

If you're one of those people who think knives should cut, you should drop a line to Tom Krein!

 

[Halfneck]

Met Tom Krein at the Blade show. Very nice guy and very nice knives. He had a real nice clip pointed bowie push dagger that I am probably going to get him to make for me. Of course his TK-8 looked like a nice knife too. Tough choices.

 

[Harry Callahan]

It is mindblowing how folks rave about BMs "quality", then in the same breath tell about how they totally reprofiled the edge so that it would cut. Unreal...

I mean no offense to Krein and don't want to de-rail your thread. I'm sure the sheath is crazy kool and the reprofile job resulted in a violent edge (something that SHOULD have come from Oregon City in the first place).

I'm just pointing out that if the NimCub was "all that" it would have come from the factory with a decent sheath and a decent edge. Especially for the the price these things demand.

I have a black-blade Temperance that feels like it could split an atom, it's housed in a quality sheath that's not only strong but butter smooth on the draw. All that at WAY less than the NimCub sells for even on under the best circumstances.

So it can, in fact, be done.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...folks rave about BMs "quality", then in the same breath tell about how they totally reprofiled the edge so that it would cut

Production companies have to make knives for their average user. Thom's Nimravus has much less of an "opps" resistance now and assuming the grind is similar to the modified U2 that Krein did for me, it is highly focused on cutting and doesn't really pay much heed to durablity at all.

As an extreme example, as Alvin Johnson is found of saying about his knives "My gaurantee is real simple, I gaurantee that unless you treat the knife like glass you will break it." You can't really expect production knives to try to approach that standard of focus.

Luckly we don't have to because there are custom makers like Wilson and Krein that will regrind and reharden our blades to any degree of insane focus that we want to apply, and some of us are pretty far out there.

Tom Krein recently reground the edge of my Benchmade 145HS Nimravus Cub

Excellent, now just get Wilson to reharden it. Krein is lucky I don't live next to him, after looking at my U2 for awhile I started to think about massive regrinds for all the other knives hanging around. I would probably be over there every other day with a new blade for him to regrind until he threw me out of the shop.

-Cliff

 

[thombrogan]

Harry Callahan,

Thanks for your assessment of the black-bladed Temperance. Sounds like a great knife. With the full flat ground VG10, the index divots, and the tek-lok on its factory-perfect kydex sheath, it sounds like it the standard by which low-weight fixed blades of the Temperance and Nimravus variety should be judged.

Halfneck,

Know what you mean. My 2006 resolution is to commission Mr. Krein to make a modified version of his O1 Microchef. I want mine to be hollow ground on both sides and ran at a higher hardness.

Cliff Stamp,

You're a bad man! The thoughts of this knife redone to RC64 verge on dirty. Mmmmm... Krein-ground Wilsonized M2....

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...it sounds like it the standard by which low-weight fixed blades of the Temperance and Nimravus variety should be judged.

Indeed, ergonomic handle, great cutting blade profile, high initial sharpness, well fitting sheath, nice steel. Very coherent and well executed design.

...Krein-ground Wilsonized M2....

And then you whip out one of Justin's monster S7 bowies. Between the two covers the entire spectrum of knife use from one extreme to the other.

-Cliff

 

[logo]

Hi Harry Callahan,

It is mindblowing how folks rave about BMs "quality", then in the same breath tell about how they totally reprofiled the edge so that it would cut. Unreal...

excuse me but I don't understand that above.

Do You think really a standard Nim Cub can't "cut"? That it was the reason, why thombrogan let reprofile it by Mr. Krein?

violent edge (something that SHOULD have come from Oregon City in the first place).

From a few dozens BMs I own only one hasn't a "violent edge" OOB. I was sharp, but didn't shave.

My sharpest knife was a Nimravus 140HS. Not my Temperance, that I own too - althought it was already really good. And that Nimravus stayed sharp maybe three or four times so long as the Temperance - even though they were used for the same materials.

If You would speak about their bestsellers and "workhorses", I put my sheepsfoot Griptilian over my Endura. Better grip, equal initial sharpness, smaller knife, but of equal cutting edge length, better slicer, due to higher grind at the same blade thickness, much stronger...

BTW it's interesting that in a thread about possible Endura and Delica modifications most suggestions from forumites to Mr. Glesser were among others "full flat grind" - does it mean they can't cut?

Native - great steel, great handle shape, and... low hollow grind. I sell it, because it always wedged when I wanted to slice something harder and thicker.

In our German knifeforum You can find the photos of Manix... without cutting edge. Just not sharpened - it was bought so.

And? SHOULD something come from Golden City?

Should I come and suggest, the Spydercos are not worth their money, because a Native can't slice as well, as Griptilian for example (look, NGK has them at equal price) - when someone shows any modification of a Spyderco knife?

I like my Temperance very much - but it's just as good as every other good kitchen knife, a great cutting (only) tool. Because it's optimized for cutting. Point.

We talk about some production knives optimized for different purposes. There is the place for the Temperance, which You can use only for cutting - and for a Nimravus, which You can use harder too.

BTW - it can cut in fact as good an a Temperance. And for some works in the kitchen I take a Nimravus because of its better belly.

Thom's Nimravus has much less of an "opps" resistance now and assuming the grind is similar to the modified U2 that Krein did for me, it is highly focused on cutting and doesn't really pay much heed to durablity at all.

IMO it's a point. That's all.

 

[brownshoe]

My little BM Terzuola Park Avenue and BM42 classic weehawk balisong are good cutters, nice even grinds, at about 15 degrees. Same thing with my Stryker auto. Overall I think BM puts a good edge on their knives...as good as spyderco in sharpness, better in terms of an even grind.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I like my Temperance very much - but it's just as good as every other good kitchen knife, a great cutting (only) tool. Because it's optimized for cutting. Point.

We talk about some production knives optimized for different purposes. There is the place for the Temperance, which You can use only for cutting - and for a Nimravus, which You can use harder too.

BTW - it can cut in fact as good an a Temperance.

Your last line here seems to be opposed to the previous two paragraphs.

-Cliff

 

[logo]

Your last line here seems to be opposed to the previous two paragraphs.

-Cliff

Why?

I wrote only that Temperance is optimised for cutting and nothing more - and Nimravus not only (thicker tip, full tang, sabre grind).

There is no word about how Nimravus cuts in these two paragraphs.

But my experiences with both show no really difference. I must say I was very surprised as I realised it, because I expected clear Temperance's superiority.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The condradiction is that if the Temperance is optomized for cutting and the Nimvarus isn't, then the Temperance should out cut it, if it doesn't then obviously it isn't in contrast optomized for cutting pretty much by defination.

There is always the case that you got a slightly thicker than average Temperance and a slightly thinner than average Nimravus. Both Temperances I had were ground to edges 0.015" (2) thick at angles under 15 degrees per side.

What is the expected NIB profile on the Nimravus?

-Cliff

 

[WadeF]

It is mindblowing how folks rave about BMs "quality", then in the same breath tell about how they totally reprofiled the edge so that it would cut. Unreal...

So a tank is a piece of crap because it can't go as fast and handle as well as a sports car? What if the tank had a lot of metal removed so it would go faster and handle better, but now it wouldn't offer any protection for those inside it? Is it better now?

Benchmade knives cut fine, but just about any knife can be made to cut better. However you trade away strength for better slicing ability.

 

[logo]

The condradiction is that if the Temperance is optomized for cutting and the Nimvarus isn't, then the Temperance should out cut it, if it doesn't then obviously it isn't in contrast optomized for cutting pretty much by defination.

Well, is that maybe my English?

I wanted to say, that Temperance ist optimised for cutting only and does it very good - and Nimravus is stronger, but can cut as good also.

There is always the case that you got a slightly thicker than average Temperance and a slightly thinner than average Nimravus. Both Temperances I had were ground to edges 0.015" (2) thick at angles under 15 degrees per side.

What is the expected NIB profile on the Nimravus?

-Cliff

In my 140HS the ground is equal as my Temperance's one - I understand You mean the thickness of the blade just over the cutting edge - it's a .5mm, thus .197''.

The edge angles per side are similar, both are a little over 15 degree per side, I've just checked it with my spyderco sharpmaker.

The grind angles for Nimravus and Temperance are respectively 8.8 and 6.5 degrees at widest grind near the handle. Just measured and calculated.

It's possible, that my Temperance is a thicker than average one and Nimravus thinner.


But - we are far off topic.

The clue of my first posting was, that Harry Calahan's statement was absolutely needless here - and quite misleading.

Misleading because of fact, that there are many Benchmade knives which can cut at least as fine as best Spyderco cutters (to mention only 710, 520 or Ritter Grip).

Needless - it's a thread about a knife nice customized by Mr. Krein, that was showed by thombrogan.

I'm at the loss for words about coming and suggesting at this occasion, that the knife is a POS that can't even cut, and common complaining about producing companies.

I'm sorry, I can't understand that.


BTW - yes, every knife can be made to cut better, as WadeF said.

 

[ayz]

you realize the nimravus knives are targeted primarily towards LEOs and other such people. Sure the blade might not cut 1mm slices of meat, but it won't chip either the second you take a swing and hack something.

a razor is probably the best cutter you will find. i would like to see you EDC that.

better cutting != better knife

 

[logo]

you realize the nimravus knives are targeted primarily towards LEOs and other such people. Sure the blade might not cut 1mm slices of meat, but it won't chip either the second you take a swing and hack something.

That's what I mean with "optimized for different purposes".

 

[thombrogan]

Was trying to showcase that not only does Tom Krein make incredible knives, he also makes other knives incredible. We can turn it into p!ssing contest about cutting ability, sharpness, and factory QC issues, though.

The Nim Cub is great at being what it's designed to be, but I wanted it to change. Tom Krein made that change for me and I am grateful. Some folks like visual aids to better understand my babbling, so the pics have been posted.

Back to the whizzing match:

Microtech has the worst QC because they keep putting the locks and pocket clips on the wrong side of their manual-action folders. They make this mistake every single time! Are their QC staff perpetually asleep at the wheel? Jeepers! I'm a lefty in statist New England, so the ambi-clipped OTF autos are verboten for me and those Vectors, Socoms, and Amphibians rigged up for right-hand carry offend my eye. j/k about the qc stuff.

 

[Tom Krein]

I personally felt that the Nim Cub was a pretty decent knife for all around utility as it was. The key statement in the previous statement is "for all around utility".

Thom asked me to thin it down to make it cut better. It will most definently cut better now. Plus it has a cool two tone look to it.

The one thing that really has not been touched on so far is the sheath. In my opinion the sheath that came with the knife is a piece of CR@P!! It did nothing to retain the knife at all. The sheath is one part of a carry knife that often gets ignored. I really think that this is a mistake. Good retention for safety and so that you don't loose your knife is important. So is ease of resheathing. I personally really like the Tek-Loks as they allow you many different carry positions.

Is the Nim Cub the best knife ever......is the Temperance the best knife ever..... I think they are both good knives, just different. Can either one be optimized for a specific job...probably. So far no knife has been a must have for every single knife person, but I AM working on the design.....

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The clue of my first posting was, that Harry Calahan's statement was absolutely needless here - and quite misleading.

I think it is a worthwhile question, why is it necessary to modifiy an NIB knife, the answer is simply that anyone can customize a knife to improve its performance to them. This isn't a slam on the knife, just an expression of the owners wants/needs. Now if you look at a lot of posts and see a lot of people doing the same thing, which is actually common with Benchmade, then you can make an arguement for a change in NIB geometry.

a razor is probably the best cutter you will find. i would like to see you EDC that.

I EDC many blades of this type. Olfa knives are ground like utility razor blades, and I have several fixed blades which are ground like straight razors only made out of much thinner stock.

-Cliff

 

[logo]

I think it is a worthwhile question, why is it necessary to modifiy an NIB knife, the answer is simply that anyone can customize a knife to improve its performance to them. This isn't a slam on the knife, just an expression of the owners wants/needs. Now if you look at a lot of posts and see a lot of people doing the same thing, which is actually common with Benchmade, then you can make an arguement for a change in NIB geometry.

Well, that is really an interesting question, I re-profiled some of my BM knives too (only back bevel), at start was it only curiosity how they would perform with smaller edge angle, and than I re-profiled all the knives which I use exclusively for cutting.

Some other did not need re-profiling, because they were already very good slicers (Presidio, Ritter, Nimravus HS, mini TSEK, an old Ascent 835 for example) and some next cut not so good, but enough for me and I left them for their strength (like Ares or Stryker).

But - the one thing is, as it was said, those re-profiled were knives, which I use exclusively for cutting.

The second - I see no question here. If Harry Callahan would ask "hi thombrogan, why did You let do that?", I would write no one word to it.

I hope it's all clear now.

PS. did You know, that some of German knifemakers had not put an edge on their knives in the twenties of the XXth century yet? They left it to an owner, how would he like to sharpen his knife

 

[knifetester]

Thom,
Excellent, excellent idea. Look like great work by Krein. You and I have such similiar taste in knives it is amazing.

Can't wait to hear how the performance is improved over stock.