When would a spine whack EVER be necessary?

[Danke42]

Too bad you guys are getting hurt. It all seems to come down to sloppy technique. Stuff that'll get you hurt opening boxes.

Stay safe.

 

[Spartan00]

Just apply hand pressure on the back of the blade.
Controlled, and doesn't do stupid wear and tear on the lock for no reason.

Oh, I had a knife that passed spine whacks but failed the hand pressure test; haven't had any that were the other way.

Oh, and don't buy crappy knives; that solves most of the problems right there (the one that failed a hand pressure test was a crappy knife).

The one that failed on me was a quality knife over or around the $200.00 price range. I own quiet a few from this brand now and never hand a problem.

My knife when new the lockup was really early. I didn't strike my Palm but I did wiggle the blade in the locked position and it held fine.

Someone else posted about technique. It was a roll of thick plastic . It comes in rolls and you haft to cut off what you need.

The best way to start your cut in this material is to pierce it with the tip then just basically do a pushcut all the way through the material.

In my situation I haft to wear Kevlar gloves as well as Kevlar sleeves under the gloves and a 4 ounce fire proof shirt unDer the 2 layers of kevlar. No doubt my glove and sleeve saved my hand when the knife failed.

I sent it back to the maker, the liner was replaced and o told the maker what happened and that I no longer trusted the knife or his brand for that matter.

He assured me the knife was now safe and I've never had a problem with any more of his knives since.

 

[Czechmate]

When you want to produce a sick beat. :foot:

Whackitty whack...

[youtube]93B1mG1H1ck[/youtube]

 

[DebX36]

I've always wondered this too. Granted if I can take my folder and LIGHTLY TAP its spine and it closes, yea, its a small problem. But in what scenario would I exert force like that onto my knife? I never even see myself batoning with a folder (albeit, stuff does happen - which is why I carry a Griptilian) but I've never been in a situation surrounded by wood without more than just my folder. In my car, I carry a BK2, a Buck 119 and an Ontario machete as well as a small Wetterlings Hatchet. At my work, there's a plethora of blades available. The ONLY time I would use a folder for batoning is that slight off chance I decide to go for a walk without a fixed blade. If I think I'll even remotely in the woods, I'll always take a fixed blade of some sort or another. Its just common sense IMO.

 

[shinyedges]

Not sure why the condescending attitude, It comes off as you're the only one who knows how to use a knife and because you haven't experienced a lock failure everyone else is doing it wrong.

Any folder I buy, I like to know the lock works. I haven't seen a single proponent of viciously beating on the spine of their knife in this thread. Seems most people are stating their personal experiences and why a gentle testing of lock geometry is a good thing. No need for the high horse routine. That attitude is pretty common around here " It hasn't happened too me, so all of you are fools and doing it wrong" is a pretty close minded mindset in my opinion.

If I mistook your post for condescending I apologize, text doesn't allow for intent to come across so well.

Too bad you guys are getting hurt. It all seems to come down to sloppy technique. Stuff that'll get you hurt opening boxes.

Stay safe.

 

[shinyedges]

I'm in the group for gently testing lock geometry before entrusting my phalanges to a knife. I realize some guys don't believe negative pressure ever occurs on the spine but that just isn't true for everyone. I have used slip joints for years and when a blade binds in a tough material the handle comes down ( cutting up various squash and vegetables for my pigs) and is rather annoying. A locking folder should do what a lock is supposed to do... keep the blade open. That same task puts pressure on the liner of linerlock knives (framelocks as well) and blindly trusting the lock would be a mistake.

I guess this is one of those things, if people who don't use knives for tasks that EVER place negative pressure on the spine that's great; if you're in the other group of guys that use knives and occasionally experience negative pressure, test your geometry. I see no need for looking down upon either group.

All that said, I live in a place where I can carry fixed most of the time and I do. So locks are less of an issue for me anymore.

 

[kniferbro]

When would a 500hp+ car EVER be necessary?













For when I'm roasting the tires first through second

 

[Czechmate]

How to avoid knife failure due to a spine whack or unintentional hit in two easy steps:

1 - Buy a framelock.

2- Squeeze the framelock handle in a gorilla grip when you're cutting with the knife thus forcing in the lock bar eliminating any slip or disengagement.



Problem solved LOL.

 

[shinyedges]

True dat! I do love me a framelock despite it not being a tri-ad lock lol

How to avoid knife failure due to a spine whack or unintentional hit in two easy steps:

1 - Buy a framelock.

2- Squeeze the framelock handle in a gorilla grip when you're cutting with the knife thus forcing in the lock bar eliminating any slip or disengagement.



Problem solved LOL.

 

[jbmonkey]

a spine whack is very useful when you are trying to make the lock fail. that's about it.

i do use both hands, fingers out of the way and push on the backside of new knife to make sure the lock is solid. that;s enough for me to see if the lock will give under normal use or not. i've seen a few slip over the years, but they were poorly done/made.

 

[Czechmate]

True dat! I do love me a framelock despite it not being a tri-ad lock lol

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

It's reassuring to me to be able to add a little more oomph to the lockbar LOL.

The caveat is it can make lockup move over more (later lockup) happen prematurely if that makes sense.

At least that's what has happened to my TUFF & ZT561; but they're both users so... :foot:

 

[jbmonkey]

How to avoid knife failure due to a spine whack or unintentional hit in two easy steps:

1 - Buy a framelock.

2- Squeeze the framelock handle in a gorilla grip when you're cutting with the knife thus forcing in the lock bar eliminating any slip or disengagement.




Problem solved LOL.

doesn't always work. sometimes the angles needed do not allow for the strong hammer grip. all cutting isn't done on a table with nothing in the way. if the lock is built properly it shouldn't fail anyways though.

 

[Spartan00]

Not sure why the condescending attitude, It comes off as you're the only one who knows how to use a knife and because you haven't experienced a lock failure everyone else is doing it wrong.

Any folder I buy, I like to know the lock works. I haven't seen a single proponent of viciously beating on the spine of their knife in this thread. Seems most people are stating their personal experiences and why a gentle testing of lock geometry is a good thing. No need for the high horse routine. That attitude is pretty common around here " It hasn't happened too me, so all of you are fools and doing it wrong" is a pretty close minded mindset in my opinion.

If I mistook your post for condescending I apologize, text doesn't allow for intent to come across so well.

I agree with you on the spine whacking part.IMO it's a little silly to beat the hell out of your knife to try and get it to fail. Even if it doesn't fail your doing damage to your folder.

Sometimes the knife is shown a few videos layer with a title saying "I fixed it". Well IMO that knife can't be trusted because of the repeated lock failure the user demonstrated over and over again.

If your lock was to fail leave it alone don't keep doing it and doing it . Send it in to the makers.

Sometimes it's just lock tension and if you are a little mechanically inclined a disassembly and a a little pressure applied to the lockbar to make it engage a little further is all that is needed

However you keep on beating hardened steel onto titanium you run the risk of deforming the TI and ruining a knife vs a simple adjustment.

I've seen many videos of "lock failure" where a person new knife lock fails and they continue to make it fail over and over and over again...

 

[RX-79G]

In for the sake of in.



More like testing the brakes.

One does not need to test their own knife to destruction (crash), but there are certainly differences in lock-strength such that a non-destructive test for one design is quite damaging to another design. If you slam the brakes, will your car stop quickly and within a short distance? Or will the brakes fail from the experience?

What is the point of a lock on a knife? What is the point of a spring on a slip-joint? To keep the blade open against closing-forces below a certain level. What is that level? Is it not important to KNOW that level before exposing yourself to injury? Or at least establishing a working range - e.g. well, my lock can withstand X level of closing force and that is more than I should ever need, I don't need to know the maximum.

I can't tell if you are in the camp that believes spine whacking is abusive and distorts the locking surfaces or not. If you believe you can bang these parts together hard enough to make some blades fail, but it will have zero effect on others - than I can see your brake analogy.

But if you are like me and other folks that think whacking does incremental damage, then you are testing the airbag, not the brakes.


I would trust a knife that no one has ever struck more than one that has been beat up. Just like I wouldn't buy a pre-crashed car.

 

[Gaston444]

I'm with chiral.grolim on this one. If there is incremental damage from spine wacking on wood, the bearing surfaces are either too small or not hardened enough...

Interestingly, for the hardening side of the issue, I had an old Spyderco Civilian (aluminium handle) and there was no comparison in the hardness of the lock bar and the hardness of the blade itself (this doesn't seem to be as obvious on the currently made G-10 handle lock bars, which also have a much harder pivot, not a very, very soft pin): I know this because I sawed a slot into the lockbar to put in a piece of copper: I twisted out the copper from the slot, this twisting action firmly "locking" the copper in place inside the slot, and the thin extended end of the copper piece acted as an additional thickness between the blade and lock bar: This subterfuge eliminated any blade rocking for 10 years until I lost the knife...

It was quite easy to saw a tiny slot into the lock bar with a modelling razor saw: There was no way to even mark the blade side with that tiny saw... This, it seems to me, is wrong, as one side being much softer will eventually develop the gap that I had to fill-in with an extra piece... The knife lasted 15 years in total, and thousands of opening cycles, but it started very tight and had to be "adjusted" after only 5 years (it remained tight 10 years after that with the copper piece)...

Gaston

 

[RevDevil]

I'm using this thread as a guide for the "do not buy from" list on the Exchange... I don't want your LNIB spinewhacked folder... :barf:

 

[RX-79G]

I'm with chiral.grolim on this one. If there is incremental damage from spine wacking on wood, the bearing surfaces are either too small or not hardened enough...

Interestingly, for the hardening side of the issue, I had an old Spyderco Civilian (aluminium handle) and there was no comparison in the hardness of the lock bar and the hardness of the blade itself (this doesn't seem to be as obvious on the currently made G-10 handle lock bars, which also have a much harder pivot, not a very, very soft pin): I know this because I sawed a slot into the lockbar to put in a piece of copper: I twisted out the copper from the slot, this twisting action firmly "locking" the copper in place inside the slot, and the thin extended end of the copper piece acted as an additional thickness between the blade and lock bar: This subterfuge eliminated any blade rocking for 10 years until I lost the knife...

It was quite easy to saw a tiny slot into the lock bar with a modelling razor saw: There was no way to even mark the blade side with that tiny saw... This, it seems to me, is wrong, as one side being much softer will eventually develop the gap that I had to fill-in with an extra piece... The knife lasted 15 years in total, and thousands of opening cycles, but it started very tight and had to be "adjusted" after only 5 years (it remained tight 10 years after that with the copper piece)...

Gaston

With round lock bars, the bearing surfaces are always small. It's a line. You're going to get peening when you strike that kind of surface.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I must lack imagination; that and I watched a movie about how to use tools once.

Well it's too late for me but as for the rest of you kids don't educated. If you do you won't be able to stab oil filters with screwdrivers or pull wild hypothetical scenarios out of your hat.

Or, actual experience with liner locks failing?

Ive had brand new locks that would disengage with hand pressure. More than one.

The lock on my new Spiderco Delica wiggles a bit disconcertingly with light finger pressure. Both in the direction of the cut, and with pressure on the spine.

I've had frame locks move and disengage with very light spine pressure.


I've not had the same issues with some other liner locks.

I carry slip joints and don't have issues.

But I usually have a folder with a strong lock on it too.

I have gotten rid of more than a few knives when I can close them with a light push on the spine.

 

[stabman]

I'm using this thread as a guide for the "do not buy from" list on the Exchange... I don't want your LNIB spinewhacked folder... :barf:

Yep.
And...yep.

People who think it is "normal" being so common has entirely ruined buying used knives for me.

I will simply have to buy new knives; then any problems I end up with are my own damned fault.

 

[Herlock]

There are knife fiddlers and knife users. Knife users don't have the time to model their knives with $1000 cameras, and equally expensive lenses and filters, to try and make it look like they use their knives. Only knife fiddlers do.

And knife users sometimes inadvertantly whack the spine. Usually when withdrawing the knife out of a confined space they were cutting something in. And their hands bear the scars of said locks failing.

Nothing wrong with being a knife fiddler. Knife users just don't like it when knife fiddlers, who have manicured hands, tell knife users that lock strength is not important. Knife users make a living with their hands, and heavily stitched hands or digits, means a loss in income.

This was quite funny . I can throw in another one: how do you tell a knife user from a knife fiddler? The user wash hands before taking a leak, the fiddler just after that .

Jokes aside , a lock failure, as unlikely as it can be when operating properly, it’s a serious issue and can really have bad consequences. I maintain reputable industries today tests their products quite extensively and offer fairly solid guarantees to customers and users about product performances and safety. Personally I believe that tools have to be used properly and, in any case, carefully. Every tool can turn into a very dangerous thing when used without proper attention, just in a rush or trying to get a result the tool was not designed to obtain. Most common accidents/incidents root cause when operating with tools is procedures are not respected (not known or not implemented). Rarely the blame it’s on the tool itself. Can be, but it’s really a tiny %.

Never had failures with my folders but I got a rather bad finger cut in my teens, when busy piercing wood with a slip-joint. Got stitched all up at the hospital and learned my lesson .