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When would you use a bowline instead of a figure 8 follow through?

psy-ops

psy-ops

Joined
Sep 27, 1999
Messages
3,164
I have been practicing my knot tying. Just sitting around trying different ones. The bowline is a fun one to practice but it doesn't seem any better than a figure 8 follow through.

Any thoughts?
 
by a figure 8 follow through you mean...?

if i am understanding it, you mean a loop tied with two cord ends, and a fig 8 knot instead of a thumb knot to hold them together...

as far as i can tell, the bowline spreads the weight on the loop more evenly to both sides, instead of pulling it all on one side of the knot. seems to me the bowline is just a bit more secure, and i think its easier to tie around things (especially with a very long rope)
 
Instead of figure 8 follow through do you mean figure 8 retrace? A bowline can be tied with one hand and this can be invaluable if used to secure yourself when one hand is occupied. I can't say the same can be done with a figure 8. Learn to tie one one handed and you'll want to practice it all the time.
 
I have used both knots (Figure-8 Follow Through or Retrace and Double Bowline) extensively while climbing and can give you my take on them from that stand point. In the climbing world the Figure-8 Follow Through is now often considered the standard for tying in and some testing (I think by Black Diamond) stated that the Double Bowline, which is the other standard knot for tying in, was not as safe as it reached failure at a lower weight and it is more prone to slippage. The Figure-8 Follow Through is also a little easier to check to make sure that it's tied correctly as it is a symetric knot. That being said, I still prefer the Double Bowline as it is much easier to untie after loading the knot. The Figure-8 can be extremely difficult to untie when heavily loaded (think after a fall), especially if your hands are fatigued and your arms are pumped out.

When I was guiding clients I would have them tie in with the Figure-8 Follow Through, but when climbing on my own I usually tied in with a Double Bowline.
 
Thanks kage. I was curious about that.

K estella, I will practice with one hand. Didn't think of that.
 
You didn't mention what you'd use them for. I love the bowline and it is the number 1 knot tied on the J29 on which I race. Never had one pop loose on a genoa and it is under immense pressure. As has been noted, it is easy and fast to tie and untie. I'd hate to have to untie a figure 8 after a day of sailing in heavy weather. The bowline is a great utility knot. If you intention is knots for climbing, please disregard.
 
psy-ops said:
Thanks kage. I was curious about that.

K estella, I will practice with one hand. Didn't think of that.
Click to expand...

A follow up on Kevin's post - picture you swamped your canoe in the rapids and you are quickly floating to the falls. Someone throws you a rope. "Damn, I'm glad I learned how to tie a one-handed bowline." :D

I don't and have never, climbed, but I think just looking at the knots you would see that the retrace fig. 8 would be much more secure than the double bowline.

As far as one handed knots go, another good one to practice is the Buntline Hitch.

Doc
 
I cant remember for a 100%, but I think I remember in fire school that the bowline was safer with non synthetic rope.
 
Maybe were not on the same page. A boline is a way to make a loop in the line. A figure 8 follow through ties two lines together.They are used for seperate jobs so one is no better than the other. A figure eight on a bite makes a loop in the line. I usually tie a boline over the figure 8 on a bite.
 
Ive never learned the figure 8 follow through to make a loop in the line. Ive used it to tie two lines together. I use a boline a lot. Also a butterfly is a neat knot. I made loops in a trot line with butterflies.
 
It seems the advantage of a bowline is you can tie a rope off while you are supporting yourself to be lowered or raised. Even with one hand.

A figure 8 retrace needs the rope to be inserted in itself. Then you could put it around your body. So you are not able to used it as a support.

Thanks again DOC and K estella.
 
psy-ops said:
The bowline is a fun one to practice but it doesn't seem any better than a figure 8 follow through. Any thoughts
Click to expand...

If you consider the percentage of residual resistance of those 2 knots, they are close in reliability. 52% for the bowline, 55% for the figure 8. The best percentage is for the figure 9 knot (70%).http://grimp77.free.fr/neuf.htm

dantzk.
 
dipbait said:
Maybe were not on the same page. A boline is a way to make a loop in the line. A figure 8 follow through ties two lines together.They are used for seperate jobs so one is no better than the other. A figure eight on a bite makes a loop in the line. I usually tie a boline over the figure 8 on a bite.
Click to expand...

edit: after re-reading this post I feel I should add that I really don't know much about knots at all, just the basic stuff. Just my opinion and limited experience.

you'd use a becketbend to tie two ropes together. Figure 8 is safer than a bowline and is becoming the standard. Tying a non constricting loop is exactly what a figure 8 follow through is for.
 
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dantzk8 said:
If you consider the percentage of residual resistance of those 2 knots, they are close in reliability. 52% for the bowline, 55% for the figure 8. The best percentage is for the figure 9 knot (70%).http://grimp77.free.fr/neuf.htm

dantzk.
Click to expand...

The only problem with figure 9 knot is that it takes way too much rope to make it. It is the chosen knot when the line is going to be loaded a lot for a long time (picture hauling bags while big wal climbing).

I first started my knot tying because we had a small vessel... so I learnt about the bowline first. A few years later I started climbing and I quickly learnt the figure 8 follow through. I no longer use a bowline when someones life might depend on it. Do it wrong and the loop will untie when weighted. A number of accidents have happened among top notch climbers (even during comps) because they were using a bowline to tie ropes to their harnesses. I recommend you all reading Pit Schubert books (Seguridad y Riesgo, in Spain).

The bowline can be done one handed, that's true though.

Mikel
 
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