Where does our appreciation of beauty come from?

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Before you ask how this possibly relates to knives, I’ll answer.

An ugly knife is akin to a boat anchor and a beautiful one a 747 jetliner, it moves under it’s own propulsion and carries many others with it. How many have made their careers on the good work of Robert Loveless?
 
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the more I think of it, the less I'm able to reduce the concept of beauty to a quantity. I'm thinking that beauty is more of a feeling than anything else, and that sensing this feeling is what brings people together in agreement
 
KamSingh said:
Before you ask how this possibly relates to knives, I’ll answer.

An ugly knife is akin to a boat anchor and a beautiful one a 747 jetliner, it moves under it’s own propulsion and carries many others with it. How many have made their careers on the good work of Robert Loveless?
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Ahh, but many think the work of Phil Hartsfield is beautiful with a 50 grit bead blasted finish and many have made their careers on his rough finish and chisel grinds as well.
 
AVigil said:
Ahh, but many think the work of Phil Hartsfield is beautiful with a 50 grit bead blasted finish and many have made their careers on his rough finish and chisel grinds as well.
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So, what's your point?

You think Phil's knives are ugly?

Believe it or not how you see a Hartsfield is not how all people see it. Depending on the atmosphere or particles in the sky people will see the same Hartsfield differently. Also depending on how a persons eyes perceived the light and color they are seeing something totally different.

A Hartsfield is determined by those who observe it will determine if it is beautiful or not.

Also beauty is subjective. There tribes around the BladeForums that have a different idea as to what beauty is that many would not see as beautiful at all.

You are contradicting yourself. If you think beauty is subjective how can you have an opinion on what others perceive as beautiful.
 
Oh I see you are not really serious with this question.

I love Phills work. I think it is beautiful. I knew the man, I have made many in his style.

The point is many do not see Hartsfield work as "beautiful" and others do .

It proves my point, it does not contradict it.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder not by consensus.
 
You are again contradicting yourself Adam, in one statement you claim many perceive Phil's work as beautiful and in the other you claim the opposite.

Which is it?

AVigil said:
Ahh, but many think the work of Phil Hartsfield is beautiful with a 50 grit bead blasted finish and many have made their careers on his rough finish and chisel grinds as well.
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AVigil said:
The point is many do not see Hartsfield work as "beautiful" and others do .
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It is both, that is not a contradiction that is a fact.

That is an example people have been telling you that beauty is "subjective" .
 
@SharpByCoop Yes, much to think about but as you say the puzzle is even more rewarding when understood.

JParanee JParanee A beautiful post, one who has understood.

AVigil AVigil I will resist falling into your cyclone of stupidity.

Lorien Lorien But can it be shared?

Many are confusing beauty with taste, which one is affected by experience?

Appreciate all those who are taking the time to think.
 
just a quick note before we go any further- personal attacks will result in infractions.
 
Taste varies so very much in all things and no ones opinion is better or more important than an others

Of course except mine :) only kidding

I love these thought provoking threads so ill elaborate on my ideal of lefts say perfection in a blade

I use the word perfection because beauty can be so subjective

A blade that performs and moves in the hand like magic has a special place in my heart

Ive seen many a blade that has what most would refer to as beautiful engraving and or materials but when you pick it up it feels like a brick

They say Alexander The Great’s sword was made of the finest steel but the handle hilt were plain and unadorned ...... I bet it was beautiful :)
 
Lorien Lorien What if one is of the opinion that insults are subjective. :D

Truth cannot be subjective, either somebody is right or nobody is.

JParanee JParanee Glad you are enjoying the discussion. I guess the question is, is taste an ability to discern true beauty. It's often guys with expensive/refined tastes that are able to spot future trends or classics, applies to cars, watches, knives but ultimately the truly timeless works are only found in nature.
 
JParanee JParanee To your second point, yes beauty is certainly more than just the outward appearance, how something makes us feel has a large impact. Balance is something that should be easy enough to gauge but often overlooked these days due to the superficial tastes of many. If we were all of the opinion that there are certain determining factors that make a blade beautiful, functionally or aesthetically then less would be likely to overlook the basics.
 
KamSingh KamSingh a lack of understanding does not mean you are correct

You do not seem to understand the phrase "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

sub·jec·tive
/səbˈjektiv/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
  1. 1.
    based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
 
You espouse the view that beauty is subjective, an opinion, yet you cannot comprehend the fact that there is a differing opinion to yours, as if somehow your opinion is the objective truth and the others is “wrong”. If you are a believer of subjectivity should you not respect the opinion of others as the absolute truth in their perceived world view?
 
KamSingh said:
You espouse the view that beauty is subjective, an opinion, yet you cannot comprehend the fact that there is a differing opinion to yours, as if somehow your opinion is the objective truth and the others is “wrong”. If you are a believer of subjectivity should you not respect the opinion of others as the absolute truth in their perceived world view?
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What are you talking about?

I agree on people having different opinions on what beauty is. My entire point is people have differing opinions and that is ok.

You seem awfully confused
 
I would think a blind man would find the smooth lines of a Moran or TaiGoo more beautiful than the sharp edges of a jewel encrusted Warenski. But I'm sighted.

Just like there is no beauty to a blind man in a sunset's colors, there is beauty to most blind or not in the warmth on one side of your body that slowly disappears and the change in the breeze as night falls...

I have a somewhat crude early folder by Ronnie Foster, MS. It's flawed in fit/finish but beautiful in the flat grind, unique file work and swelled handle. The red coral in the thumb stud is misshapen but cute. Beautiful is not perfection, look at a child...
 
KamSingh said:
Many are confusing beauty with taste, which one is affected by experience?
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No, I think you have decided that they are mutually exclusive terms with no possibility of overlap.
 
Our perception of the truth is not the truth.

Is the grand canyon still beautiful if no one is around to witness it?
 
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