Where to Practice Survival Skills

Let me echo what Bob W said. Are you sure you can't do it in Utah? I would be really surprised you are not legal to gather dead wood already on the ground, pine needles, leaves, sticks, dead bark, and other debris to make a debris shelter in National Forests in Utah. A small debris hut is better than a big one as far as keeping warm. Just make sure to take it down after you are finished and make the place look as natural as possible after you have left. Like anything else you just have to be responsible, use common sense, have respect for other forest users, etc. etc.
 
There is definitely plenty of land out here, but most of it's desert, and I'm iffy on the regulations. I know that shelter-building is specifically forbidden in the Uintas even though it's legal to have fires with dead and down wood (this is where most people go for backpacking around here). It seems like there are some pretty strict regulations protecting the wilderness here--it's even illegal for hunters to kill rattlesnakes. I'm thinking the easiest way might just be hiking a few miles off trail, only using dead and down wood, and disassembling everything when I'm done as has been suggested. It would be nice to find a forested area where shelter-building isn't mentioned specifically in the regulations, and there very well may be some--I'm still learning what areas are open to camping and backpacking.
 
Billygoat, I would ask a ranger what they mean by "shelter building". I would guess it is more in the line of shacks.

Pretty much illegal to kill rattlesnakes on state and federal land in my area. I sort of think it is a national thing now.
 
billygoat162 said:
I know that shelter-building is specifically forbidden in the Uintas even though it's legal to have fires with dead and down wood (this is where most people go for backpacking around here)....I'm thinking the easiest way might just be hiking a few miles off trail, only using dead and down wood, and disassembling everything when I'm done as has been suggested.
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Shelter building on most public land is forbidden. However, the concern behind this regulation is usually in regards to chopping down trees/vegetation. I think that if you stick to building something out of found materials and disassemble it when you're done, it wouldn't be a big deal.

billygoat162 said:
It seems like there are some pretty strict regulations protecting the wilderness here--it's even illegal for hunters to kill rattlesnakes.
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Part of the Uintas is merely National Forest, though there is also the High Uinta Wllderness. Are you referring to Wilderness with a capital "W," or just wilderness in general? Regulations for most FS land are a lot more relaxed than designated Wilderness, which is one of the higher levels of protection that exists for public land.
 
Interesting topic, that I never thought I would have to face. Due to the geography of my last job move the warden and I found ourselves in the virtually bald prairie. My salvation now is utilizing the local lake\creek ravines. These areas come close to and at times meet my needs for wild semi dense indigenous flora. At times I feel a need to be in these places as an instinctive ''quiet place'' were the sights, sounds, smells heal my soul and calm me from the at times maddening burdens of modern life. I try to treat these areas with respect as they are few and fragile. But regardless of my location, I can usually find peace and beauty when I appreciate the areas assets for what they are. As for ''skills'' practice, at whatever level seems practical or interests me, I can do much of this near anywhere. I am moderate to OK with feather sticks and no longer care much about X number of curls. As long as my efforts improve my fire starting abilities in adverse conditions, I feel satisfied. I have a big pile of Choke Cherry limbs that I've dried and I practice on now and then, at home, when I feel like it. I also do the same in one of my little outdoor romps locally. The warden and I get a seasons pass for a local regional park every year as the spot has a lake and fairly dense, for this area, vegetation. I can fiddle fart around with feather sticks, play with my axes\hawks, whatever, there. This is my reality at this point in time. For me it was a mind set. I could whine over missing the beautiful moss floor covered Boreal, or appreciate a different region for its own aesthetic qualities, which may or may not be different. This was just the mental struggle that I had to deal with due to relocating. If I was in downtown Toronto or Chicago I would just as likely look for those brush covered ravines to quietly to my thing.
 
FYI since you live in northern Utah, suggest you go to Woodsmoke. You will meet lots of folks from your area that can give you specific locations on where to go and play... Plus some great lessons at a reasonable price from the likes of Mors Kochanski and many others. Hope to see you there!
 
Do you have any friends or family with wooded property? I live in a condo, but my folks have 20 acres of mostly wooded property nearby - and they don't mind my shelter building and fire-crafting so long as nothing is visible from the house. I have friends with acreage too, but they're too far away for frequent visits, so we go there occasionally for long weekends of shooting and bushcraft. Ask around, you never know....
 
It seems like there are some pretty strict regulations protecting the wilderness here--
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Only a small % of public land is designated wilderness.

it's even illegal for hunters to kill rattlesnakes.
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Seems to be true, rattlesnakes are protected in Utah. Would you want to eat one? Would you take part in rattlesnake hunting if there were a season for them? Can you distinguish the rare/threatened rattlensnakes from the more common species (I can't)? Just curious.
 
This has been an issue for me for a while. I live in Northern California, within "suburbia" but not a long drive from more rural, even wild places. I understand that established trails need rules to prevent overuse and abuse. The trails are bad enough as it is, which is why I use trailheads only as convenient access points and go off-trail as soon as possible. Trails here can be very crowded, but even on summer weekends you can hike off-trail 100 feet and then walk for 20 miles without seeing or hearing another human being. Considering the huge ratio of off-trail to on-trail land, plus the tiny number of off-trail hikers & campers compared to those on-trail, it seems to me that some survival practice would not be unreasonable off-trail.

Also, a responsible survivalist would make a reasonable effort to clean up after him/herself, so the backwoods need not turn into a "lean-to ghetto."

That having been said, practicing to simulate a true survival situation would usually involve some impacts, including felling small trees, gathering greenery for bedding / roofing / food, and significantly disturbing at least a small patch of nature, and this is the part that seems not to be legal anywhere. The only time I've been able to do that was in an area being cleared for a new subdivision, and even there they were adamant that no fires be built. All the native trees & brush was coming down anyway, so they were OK with me treating the doomed vegetation as I pleased, but without a fire, it was still only a partial survival simulation.

If anyone knows of any land North of the SF Bay Area where it would be legal to practice the full range of survival skills, I'd be very interested to hear of it.

(BTW, for those recommending the "evasion" approach as a way to surreptitiously practice survival skills without permission, I wouldn't recommend it in NorCal. As in much of the Western U.S., any sign of smoke at all is liable to prompt a visit from firefighters, and probably a fine. In other areas, if you are unknowingly practicing a little too close to an illegal marijuana grow, you're liable to get shot without warning.)
 
What part of Utah? I used to live North of Ogden. Lots of places to go and practice, especially if you are willing to walk off the roadway.
 
Codger_64 said:
Gather brush and other materials from tree and landscape trimming and lot clearing, take them home and practice in your own back yard. Or a friends if you don't have a yard.
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^^^This^^^


Spend the $$$ and buy a good tarp.


And perhaps and emberlit stove. Cooks with twigs, little to no smoke, very efficient. No need to deplete Northern Utah Or California of its wood supply.

Not exactly sure what skills specifically you want to practice. But the tarp will allow you a ton of options.

Survival Skills, in my mind are certainly different than Bush Crafting. Sure many things overlap. Most quite well. But to me survival skills, mean not dying, and moving on to be found. Or avoiding capture, and moving on to safer territory.

A tarp allows for all three scenarios. Light, fast, subtle, (at least if you choose your colors wisely) and extremely versatile. It can take you from your back yard to pretty much anywhere you want to go.

It will leave a whole lot more acceptable footprint in public areas too.

Now if you want to practice Bushcraft. Go see your local, landscapers or tree guys, maybe even the town or county. Many pick up trees and brush.

Tell them what you are trying to do. See if they will give you some of their wood scraps. Take them home and have at it. Learning to make fire boards, tent pegs, walking sticks, frog spears chairs and tripods can all be done in a 20'x20' piece of real estate with plenty of room to spare.

In the fall go get some leaves and add it to the sticks you have and make a debris shelter, leaves may be more of a problem where you are than here. Maybe pine bows, learn to use what you have available.

You can practice lashing on almost anything, this is from the tripod with the tarp above. Roll of twine $2.88




Make things out of the scraps,


Practice tent pegs,




Two of my main pieces of advice are,
1. Tell yourself you can do it, don't tell yourself you can't do it.

2. I recommend this to everyone who talks about practicing survival, prepping, or disaster preparedness. Or call it whatever you want. Spend a week discussing it with your family. Then on Friday evening, trip your main breaker. Go the weekend without power. You can only use what you have.

#2 will teach you much more than you might imagine.
 
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Think about things you use in everyday life and build them.

Tongs,






Feather Sticks,



Walking stick,



Further suggestions, buy the book Bushcraft by Mors Kochansky. Read it, buy two take one out with you.

Pick a knife, any decent knife. It doesn't have to be a super fancy, bushy battle mistress with a scandifluvian grind. Made by a witch doctor in Helsinky.

It just has to be sharp. One of the absolute best survival skills there is. Is learning how to keep your knife sharp.

Once you have picked your knife, get intimate with it. Learn its strengths and weaknesses.

Every thing I showed you here, was done entirely with my KA-BAR and a roll of twine.

It makes a mean omelette too!



Again refer to #1 above. Just find a way to get it done. You don't need a lot of fancy crap, or tons of space. Just be creative. Learn as much as you can, with what you can find.
 
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One last thing,

Have some fun, Survival, or Bushcraft doesn't have to be about being miserable. You can have a really good time.

Get some fire wood, make a fire in your yard, Let it burn down to a good batch of coals, level them up and toss on the steaks. I bought a sirloin tip roast for around 4.89/lb. then sliced it into steaks. I got five decent sized steaks out of it. Cheaper than baloney too.




Wait until you see some blood starting to bubble out of the top. Then flip them over.
Coals will stick to them, and the whole mess will look hideous. Fear not!




I cooked these two another five minutes after flipping. And then removed from the heat and let them rest for about ten minutes. If you want juicy steak, or meat of any kind. This is the most important step in the process. You can knock some coals off now if you want.




What they looked like after the rest period. I don't know about you folks, but I'm getting hungry.





This is my new KA-BAR's most important mission to date. By a long shot. Slicing these bad boys up. I usually grind out some sea salt right on the board.

This blade is a decent slicer,
 
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OK,

Now go forth and Survive!

One last motovation shot, might as well survive with steak,

The sun setting on a perfect hunk of meat,

 
LostViking

What a superb post!
Excellent advise
I carry a poncho as my main rain defence (with a folding umbrella), which is a shelter in any situation
A 3x3 tarp as my camp

I taught Knife and Axe, and Range in Scouts Upstate NY in 73 for the summer
That and knots are the basic skills
And a fire with two matches
Camping with no tent, just a poncho and blanket
Scouts growing up taught me all these skills that we dream about here


When i first backpacked in the US, I carried my Camillius Utility from 74, a Vietnam surplus
A fine knife when sharp, and it was sharp

Add a folding saw

Then lots of practice,
learning how to do it safely
Lots of practice
 
LostViking said:
^^^This^^^


Spend the $$$ and buy a good tarp.

A tarp allows for all three scenarios. Light, fast, subtle, (at least if you choose your colors wisely) and extremely versatile. It can take you from your back yard to pretty much anywhere you want to go.

It will leave a whole lot more acceptable footprint in public areas too.

Practice tent pegs,
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What tarp is that? You say a good tarp. I assume you don't mean the cheap blue ones. What size is best based on your experience? I started carrying a small tarp in my day pack even when I don't need one and looking for suggestions. Nice tent pegs by the way. I would hate to toss those.

The steak looks delicious!
 
Stroudless said:
This has been an issue for me for a while. I live in Northern California, within "suburbia" but not a long drive from more rural, even wild places. I understand that established trails need rules to prevent overuse and abuse. The trails are bad enough as it is, which is why I use trailheads only as convenient access points and go off-trail as soon as possible. Trails here can be very crowded, but even on summer weekends you can hike off-trail 100 feet and then walk for 20 miles without seeing or hearing another human being. Considering the huge ratio of off-trail to on-trail land, plus the tiny number of off-trail hikers & campers compared to those on-trail, it seems to me that some survival practice would not be unreasonable off-trail.

Also, a responsible survivalist would make a reasonable effort to clean up after him/herself, so the backwoods need not turn into a "lean-to ghetto."

That having been said, practicing to simulate a true survival situation would usually involve some impacts, including felling small trees, gathering greenery for bedding / roofing / food, and significantly disturbing at least a small patch of nature, and this is the part that seems not to be legal anywhere. The only time I've been able to do that was in an area being cleared for a new subdivision, and even there they were adamant that no fires be built. All the native trees & brush was coming down anyway, so they were OK with me treating the doomed vegetation as I pleased, but without a fire, it was still only a partial survival simulation.

If anyone knows of any land North of the SF Bay Area where it would be legal to practice the full range of survival skills, I'd be very interested to hear of it.

(BTW, for those recommending the "evasion" approach as a way to surreptitiously practice survival skills without permission, I wouldn't recommend it in NorCal. As in much of the Western U.S., any sign of smoke at all is liable to prompt a visit from firefighters, and probably a fine. In other areas, if you are unknowingly practicing a little too close to an illegal marijuana grow, you're liable to get shot without warning.)
Click to expand...

Many of the best mentors I ever had in wilderness living skills was from the native tribes around here. Here's a great spot to check out once they get the 2016 calendar up. :thumbup: http://www.primitiveways.com/Friends%20of%20PT8.html
 
That tarp is a 10x10 from Bushcraft USA in coyote.

Etowah and Cook Custom Sewing make nice ones too. As well as others. I have had a silnylon 10x10 from Cooke for many years and it is still going strong.

I think size and shape is more of a personal and use thing. I tend to lean toward square tarps. But a lot of folks like rectangles better. Especially the hammock guys. I guess it is what your comfortable with. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I would like to find a 7x7 square.

I carry a M.E.ST. in my pack most of the time. It is BCUSAs 5x7 version. I used a Basha for years. They can be a little Spartan size wise. But provide ample cover to keep you dry and alive.

I don't reject the idea of hardware store tarps at all. I use them quite often actually. But I would recommend at least a middle of the road one, quality wise. The economy ones seem to come apart fairly quick. I tend to use these for semi-permanent camps. Because they are heavy and bulky. But they work well and are very econnomical.

Another cool tarp is the 9x9 multipurpose tarp Campmor sells. Multiple tie out options. Somewhere around $50.00. If you are going long distances the sil-nylon ones will lighten your load. But they get pricey. I camped under one of them with a small sapling bent over and tied to the ground to form an arch. Ran the tarp over the top and staked it down. Almost like a geodesic. When I left the tree was no worse for the wear.

I was just hoping to give the OP and the guy from Cali, some ideas and inspiration.

If it's not super buggy, I almost always go the tarp route. So much more versatility than a tent.

Here was my semi permanent set up from a few years back. (Tractor Supply Heavy Duty $26.00)



I added a reflector for colder weather.


This set up got me through Irene pretty much high and dry. Although it did rock and roll a bit.
 
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I used to do this kind of stuff near the train tracks. Nobody cared about fires or shelters. Plenty of homeless anyhow.
 
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