where to start ? how to make a knife ....

F

frc505

Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
847
Hey guys,

Well I've been thinking about this for a while now
And finally decided that I would like to try my hand
At making a knife. I have read a few of the stickeys
Posted by bladsmth on the subject and have found
The information helpful while I'll need to read them
Over a few times to fully understand them I think
Im on the right track ! I know I'll need help later on
And think I can find it here so to keep this short
I would like to know if there are any good starter
Kits out there as the ones im seeing are the knife
Blank ones where you put the handle on and then
Sharpen it and your done... Thats not what I want
So any suggestions are welcomed ... And just to let
You guys know I can get a handheld disc grinder and
May have a table top dual wheel disc grinder but I
Need to look for it this weekend ! Thats all I got for
Now but seeing as my birthday is coming up maybe
Ill get a few more things to add ? If not hopefully ill
Have every thing I need by the fall !
Thanks in advance

Frank
 
The links didn't all copy- Here it is

The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V25

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:

Think thin. A paring knife slices, an axe doesn't.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then make it in wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
Play with that and see if it “feels right”. If it feels right it usually “looks right“

How to post a photo on BF
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/742638-TUTORIAL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. Google books thread

Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better for some steels.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitchers..)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. I just post this as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4995247/Greenpete_s__Knifemaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.


You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench.
Forget used motor oil, it's toxic and doesn't work that well.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;

Even grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel.

Brine and water are almost free, and technically correct for W1 and "water hardening" steels but a fast oil like Parks 50 and Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades.
If you use water or brine, expect to have a cracked or broken blade.
Search the work "tink" for more info


Glue – Epoxy

Use a Fresh package of slow setting, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and well as seal out moisture.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive, blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean & no oil including fingerprints. Soap, Acetone & Alcohol, Blasting.
Clamp with moderate pressure= avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
These are well proven.
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Files can be made from unhardenable steel, or steel similar to 1095 that needs a difficult HT
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Simplest, and cheapest are hardly ever the same, but:
Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive, no belts and a VFD for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
Or you may find them cheaper at other retailers, but watch shipping.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html
VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.

Wiring kit
Wiring kit - for 115v VFD includes 8' 14 gauge molded cord, 2' 4 conductor wire for from VFD to motor, cable glands, wire nuts and grounding connectors $45.00 including shipping CONUS.


The 1.5 HP combination is the most common setup, as reported by Rob Frink in some thread somewhere
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can smoke the unit.
It has good community and company support, like the manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and adjustment settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reported being able to run a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple-Here's how
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html




Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Don't believe me? google "Ed Caffrey lung cancer" and see what he has to say about it.

The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
There are also prefilters that snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here

This is a special Google page that searches BF only & works better than the forum search.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

V25 May 10, 2012
Added VFD’s made simple

Countavatar.jpg
 
Last edited:
12345678910,

Thanks for all that info I will take me awhile
To read all of it but I will in the mean time I
Can not post a picture as my laptop is fried
( my 4 year old decided it was dirty and that
It needed a bath lol ) so im doing this all on
My cell phone ! I can email a pic to some one
and let them post it if their willing ! But I do
Have a pattern in mind its a med to large size
Hunting knife and I think I try some of aldo's
1084FG to make it out of !

Thanks again

Frank
 
Geek,

Thanks man ill need a email
update : email sent will send pic
Later tonite

Frank
 
Last edited:
Well looks like you are going to have to file your knife to shape. A high tension hack saw with a good quality blade will cut out th shape and you can drill the handle with a hand drill. Search youtube and such for tutorial on how to draw file, it will save you time. Sounds like you started off by finding the correct info, the finer details will be in there.

One of the first places to start in the Count's massive post is with the Green Pete videos, its a primitive, bare bones way to make a knife, and a good course on the absolute basics of it. All this facy equipment we have just makes things easier and prettier in the end, but with care and concentration a very good looking knife can be made with hand tools.

Oh, hang on to your wallet, this hobby is addicting!


-Xander
 
Xander,

Thanks for the heads up ! I will do that ...
This for me will most likely be a fall/winter
Hobby as I send most of the summer with
My kids so I plan to start getting.everything
I need overtime !

Frank
 
Post a few sketches and lets see what you are planning. After a little refinement ( if needed) I could put together a starter kit for you.
There are plenty of folks here who can help with HT and advise you on your build.
All you will need is a 10" flat bastard file and a second cut file. I'll send the rest of the materials to you.
 
Bladsmth,

Thanks for the help ! Thegeek574 is going
To post my pics after I send them to him
The pattern I have in mind is a hunter/
Bushcraft design

Frank
 
Frank, welcome to our addiction. When your blade is ready to heat treat send it to me and I'll do it for free. All I ask is that you pay return shipping. In the meantime keep reading, watching videos, and asking questions. Also feel free to email me or call me using the info. below. I'm looking forward to watching you make your first knife a reality.
 
Mr. Sanders,

Thanks for the offer its a deal just an fyi
I plan on using aldo's 1084FG ! But as I
Said I plan on taking it slow read and
Learn as much as I can and buy every
Thing I need over time I got some drawings
That ill send you to see what you think
After if you could post them here id,really
Appreciate it thanks again

Frank

Ps. I just sent you the pics of my knife drawings @ 0015
 
Last edited:
Hey Frank, welcome to the insanity. I took a look at your fine drawings and concentrating on the bottom knife (the top is a spear, right?) I tweaked it just an itsy bitsy wee little bit. So little you probably wouldn't notice except that I'm telling you now. Well, here it is below.

Franksknife.gif


I think you want to make a fairly big zombie chopper with a clipped point and four holes so you can tie it to a shaft and make a spear. Is that close?

Whatever design you go with make a template from cardboard or something similar and feel it in your hand. You can tell a lot from it.

- Paul Meske
 
Mr. Sanders,

Thanks for posting my drawing !
so what does everyone think ?
Top is a spear point bottom is a
Clip point !

frank
 
Paul,

what you tweaked was the exposed tang
At the end ! Am i correct ? I was going
For more bushcraft utility more then
Zombie survival ! But not a bad idea tho
And yes the holes are so it could be made
Into a spear hence the spearpoint model
I want to stick to between 5 to 7 inches in
Blade length !

Frank
 
Frank - I don't think I quite understand the concept of your bushcraft utility hunter design. Is it a spear point that can be used as a knife rather than a knife that can be used as a spear point? What are the specific MOST IMPORTANT tasks you want it to do very well? I don't mean a wish-list of everything that might be done with it.

In my pea-sized mind making a knife into a spear is beyond "utility" and into "survival".

I'm trying to remember the last time when I went to woods in a non-survival situation and said to myself "Boy, if only I had a spear!" I think it was when I was a kid trying to spear ferocious frogs. ;-)

Aside from all that I'm thinking that though the clipped point is, well, pointy, it may be relatively weak and tend to break off when used real hard.

- Paul Meske
 
Frank, your welcome, posting the pic was no problem. I would play with the design until you find what you really like and feels comfortable. The only thing I suggest is that you place the holes the way Paul did in his drawing. I think the protrusions in your drawings would be very uncomfortable in some situations. Done properly either design will make a good tool. You can pick any knife ever made and there will be people who love it and people who hate it. It just depends on what tickles YOUR fancy.
 
Paul,

I understand where your coming From and
What your getting at i tried to come up with
A simple design and i came up with something
Else ! What i would,like for this knife to do well
In is as a camp utility blade to do camp chores
But still capable Of game prep if needed !

Frank
 
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