Whetstone Advice

M

mzmrz

Joined
Jan 8, 2026
Messages
9
Hey guys! My first post here!

I'm looking to change some of my stones but I am getting flabbergasted by the amount of options.

First, I'll give you a short summary of my experience. I started sharpening a year ago, my first stone being Shapton Kuromaku 1000. I learned the basics and developed some technique. Then, 6 months in I got my second stone - the Kuromaku 2000, alongside a Sharpal strop and a 3-6micron(TechDiamondTools) diamond paste. I started getting a pretty good edge, but wanted yet another upgrade. A month ago I splurged and got a Naniwa Chocera Pro 3000 and am amazed at the stone, I love it. Also, I bought a DMT 325 grit coarse stone because of the frustration of going through many knives and doing a lot of trimming on the Shapton 1000.

Now, my dilemma:

I feel like selling my Shaptons and getting either a Naniwa Pro 800 or 1000, because I love the feel of the 3000. My first question is whether I should go for the 800 or the 1000, does it make any difference?

The DMT stone I got is the 6inch and i don't really like the feel and the size, and am thinking about replacing it with either one Atoma 140 or Atoma 140+400 on the other side. What do you think about that?

And lastly: What polish stone do I get? I really like the convenience splash and go stones give, so I'll stick to that. The options I've come to consider so far are: Kitayama 8000, SHIN NAGURA 6000, KEN-SYOU Akatsuki 6000, MORIHEI 6000.

Also, what are your experiences with Nagura stones - any recommendations?

I'd love to get your opinions!
 
In my personal experience the Naniwa Chosera 800 is the far better stone than the 1000 (cuts way faster, finish is actually not too far off from the 1000, feedback on the 800 is nicer to me). My favorites in this line are the 800 and 3000, of the ones I have used.

All that said, the Shapton you already have is a great stone, if reputed to be a bit more coarse than the Naniwa.

Atoma 140 cuts real fast but feels like a gravel road... bit of a weapon that can be kinda dangerous if not used carefully. An important tool for me, but I like to give a bit of warning when describing it to others. The 400 is more easily recommendable unless you really need to hog off a lot of steel or are dealing with very wear resistant steels. The DMT stone you already have is not a bad stone and may not be worth replacing unless you are really looking to try something different (and I'm not one to judge anybody for buying new stones just to try them).
 
I had a Kitayama 8000 and did not like it. It had embedded clay pieces that chipped fine edges. No amount of soaking would soften some of the pieces.

The Naniwa Snow White 8000 is a fantastic stone at that grit level - vastly better than the Kitayama.

For knives, stones below 1000 will be more important to acquire before the high grit stones.

The Atoma 140 is a work horse and handy. Add a 400 of your choice, Atoma is great in every grit offered. The Naniwa 800 either Chosera or even the Lobster are good and useful stones.
 
Wandering_About said:
In my personal experience the Naniwa Chosera 800 is the far better stone than the 1000 (cuts way faster, finish is actually not too far off from the 1000, feedback on the 800 is nicer to me). My favorites in this line are the 800 and 3000, of the ones I have used.

All that said, the Shapton you already have is a great stone, if reputed to be a bit more coarse than the Naniwa.

Atoma 140 cuts real fast but feels like a gravel road... bit of a weapon that can be kinda dangerous if not used carefully. An important tool for me, but I like to give a bit of warning when describing it to others. The 400 is more easily recommendable unless you really need to hog off a lot of steel or are dealing with very wear resistant steels. The DMT stone you already have is not a bad stone and may not be worth replacing unless you are really looking to try something different (and I'm not one to judge anybody for buying new stones just to try them).
Click to expand...
Great, I will probably get the Chosera 800 and try to sell my Shaptons(I love the 2000 but I don't see any need for it now that I have the Chosera 3000)

I wanted a 140 because of the absolutely terrible knives I had to sharpen lately, like 2mm deep chips(on cleavers and knives alike) I had to remove on the shapton, and even on the DMT it is not fast enough(I don't have a grinder). And I really dislike the 6inch size of the DMT.

Appreciate the reply!
 
jeffbird said:
I had a Kitayama 8000 and did not like it. It had embedded clay pieces that chipped fine edges. No amount of soaking would soften some of the pieces.

The Naniwa Snow White 8000 is a fantastic stone at that grit level - vastly better than the Kitayama.

For knives, stones below 1000 will be more important to acquire before the high grit stones.

The Atoma 140 is a work horse and handy. Add a 400 of your choice, Atoma is great in every grit offered. The Naniwa 800 either Chosera or even the Lobster are good and useful stones.
Click to expand...
Noted! In your experience do you reach more often to a diamond stone for the lower grit? The more content I watch the more confused I become - the low grit stones proposed are often the Shapton pro 320/glass 320, Suehiro 180 and the Atoma 140.

Also, what does your grit progression look like? What are your favourite 5000+ stones?

Appreciate the reply!
 
Just a quick note, only members with a gold or higher membership can discuss selling or the intent to sell on this site. Bringing this up because it has now been mentioned twice in this thread. This is covered in our rules.
 
Blues said:
Just a quick note, only members with a gold or higher membership can discuss selling or the intent to sell on this site. Bringing this up because it has now been mentioned twice in this thread. This is covered in our rules.
Click to expand...
Got it!
 
jeffbird said:
OP,

what types of knives and steel are you wanting to sharpen?
Click to expand...
Well, I have a few Victorinox knives, but I've been sharpening for friends and family, and so far I'd say the hardest steels I've sharpened are VG10 and D-2. I'd sharpen whatever I can get my hands on.
 
Waterstones wear out relatively quickly compared to other types of stones. There is no need or real benefit to using waterstones for those.

A set of Atomas is a solid starting point that will make quick work of the D2. The difference between the 400 and 600 is small and easy to skip one.

Try the Atoma 140, 400, and 1,200 followed by a strop.

I now use a soft Arkansas stone and then a hard Ark to debur rather than a leather strop. India stones are low cost and effective on soft steels like the Victorinox. A coarse, medium, and fine India make a very useful set of stones for softer steels and they wear very slowly.

Use food grade mineral oil on the diamond plates, Arks, and India stones. It may be purchased in grocery stores and pharmacies where it is sold as a laxative.

Wash the Arks and India stones with Dawn dish soap or equivalent and scrub with a wash cloth or scrubber to prevent swarf clogging them up.

Kind of ironic that after trying shelves full of stones, the journey has circled back to my beginning point fifty years later of diamond plates, Arks, and India stones. Those make a very solid foundation.

Also, buy large stones for home use, they are a joy to use.

The waterstones shine with straight razors and high end chef knives.
 
Last edited:
jeffbird said:
Waterstones wear out relatively quickly compared to other types of stones. There is no need or real benefit to using waterstones for those.

A set of Atomas is a solid starting point that will make quick work of the D2. The difference between the 400 and 600 is small and easy to skip one.

Try the Atoma 140, 400, and 1,000 followed by a strop.

I now use a soft Arkansas stone and then a hard Ark to debur rather than a leather strop. India stones are low cost and effective on soft steels like the Victorinox. A coarse, medium, and fine India make a very useful set of stones for softer steels and they wear very slowly.

Use food grade mineral on the diamond plates, Arks, and India stones. It may be purchased in grocery stores and pharmacies where it is sold as a laxative.

Wash the Arks and India stones with Dawn dish soap or equivalent and scrub with a wash cloth or scrubber to prevent swarf clogging them up.

Kind of ironic that after trying shelves full of stones, the journey has circled back to my beginning point fifty years later of diamond plates, Arks, and India stones. Those make a very solid foundation.

Also, buy large stones for home use, they are a joy to use.

The waterstones shine with straight razors and high end chef knives.
Click to expand...
Interesting perspective above, about the comparisons between using water stones, oil stones or diamond for the steel types mentioned.

Over some years, I've also developed a preference for using and favoring an India stone (Fine) for cutlery like Victorinox and other simple stainless blades, which respond beautifully to the India stone. I've also used diamond on these steels, and with a much lighter touch, those can also have unique advantages in results obtained on simple steels like these. Diamond has also been my preference for finishing D2, in particular. D2 is very fickle in the finishing stages, and I've found it responds much, much better when refining and finishing on diamond.

Having said the above, I was intrigued to see this thread turn up yesterday and I'm planning to follow it. The timing was interesting. Just so happens, I took delivery yesterday of Naniwa's 800 Chocera Pro stone, as well as their Aotoishi 2000 stone - also known as their 'Green Brick of Joy'. I'd also previously purchased Naniwa's 400 Chocera Pro stone, along with an Atoma 140 plate for flattening purposes. All in the pursuit of expanding my sharpening horizons, as I've previously not used water stones. Haven't tried any of them out yet, but I'm anxious to learn something new.
 
jeffbird said:
Waterstones wear out relatively quickly compared to other types of stones. There is no need or real benefit to using waterstones for those.

A set of Atomas is a solid starting point that will make quick work of the D2. The difference between the 400 and 600 is small and easy to skip one.

Try the Atoma 140, 400, and 1,000 followed by a strop.

I now use a soft Arkansas stone and then a hard Ark to debur rather than a leather strop. India stones are low cost and effective on soft steels like the Victorinox. A coarse, medium, and fine India make a very useful set of stones for softer steels and they wear very slowly.

Use food grade mineral oil on the diamond plates, Arks, and India stones. It may be purchased in grocery stores and pharmacies where it is sold as a laxative.

Wash the Arks and India stones with Dawn dish soap or equivalent and scrub with a wash cloth or scrubber to prevent swarf clogging them up.

Kind of ironic that after trying shelves full of stones, the journey has circled back to my beginning point fifty years later of diamond plates, Arks, and India stones. Those make a very solid foundation.

Also, buy large stones for home use, they are a joy to use.

The waterstones shine with straight razors and high end chef knives.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm definitely on board on the quick wearing out point. I went into sharpening with the expectation of my Shapton 1000 lasting 2 lifetimes, passing it to my child or something haahahaha. When I got it I was surprised by how small it was, and lo and behold I've worn it down 1/4 in a quarter of a year.

The D2 knife(my EDC) is a pain in the ass to sharpen with my stones, I could definitely see the atomas doing great work there, so point taken! Also, having been rather unimpressed with the DMT I'm willing to go for an Atoma.

Haven't really thought about going for Arkansas or India stones, I suppose they are naturals? I just saw the pricetag of the Japanese naturals and was VERY put off to say the least. I'll check out something, I'd take any recommendations.

Also how would I use the mineral oil on the diamond plate? During sharpening or after washing to preserve the metal block from rusting? I tried using water on my DMT but something that looks like rust to me appeared, then after continuing to grind through a disgusting old cleaver it disappeared. Still not sure if it was rust haha.

It seems like I'm going down the rabbit hole of stones. Also I'm considering sharpening on the side for extra income. That's partly the reason for wanting to invest in some quality stones.
 
Also I love the feeling of waterstone sharpening, I'm not so sold on the feeling of diamond stones, but maybe it's the 6inch size that's the issue.

My "research" has brought me to thinking of:
Suehiro Debado 180 grit - seems to be very thick and would be helpful with the initial repair of however big the chips might be
Atoma 400 - for flattening
Chocera 800 - for the better feel as opposed to the Shapton 1000
Naniwa Dressing Stone and Sabitoru rust erasers

I'm for sure putting off a polishing stone for now.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Interesting perspective above, about the comparisons between using water stones, oil stones or diamond for the steel types mentioned.

Over some years, I've also developed a preference for using and favoring an India stone (Fine) for cutlery like Victorinox and other simple stainless blades, which respond beautifully to the India stone. I've also used diamond on these steels, and with a much lighter touch, those can also have unique advantages in results obtained on simple steels like these. Diamond has also been my preference for finishing D2, in particular. D2 is very fickle in the finishing stages, and I've found it responds much, much better when refining and finishing on diamond.

Having said the above, I was intrigued to see this thread turn up yesterday and I'm planning to follow it. The timing was interesting. Just so happens, I took delivery yesterday of Naniwa's 800 Chocera Pro stone, as well as their Aotoishi 2000 stone - also known as their 'Green Brick of Joy'. I'd also previously purchased Naniwa's 400 Chocera Pro stone, along with an Atoma 140 plate for flattening purposes. All in the pursuit of expanding my sharpening horizons, as I've previously not used water stones. Haven't tried any of them out yet, but I'm anxious to learn something new.
Click to expand...
I'm definitely interested in your thoughts on the Chocera 800 once you try it out!
 
mzmrz said:
Yeah, I'm definitely on board on the quick wearing out point. I went into sharpening with the expectation of my Shapton 1000 lasting 2 lifetimes, passing it to my child or something haahahaha. When I got it I was surprised by how small it was, and lo and behold I've worn it down 1/4 in a quarter of a year.

The D2 knife(my EDC) is a pain in the ass to sharpen with my stones, I could definitely see the atomas doing great work there, so point taken! Also, having been rather unimpressed with the DMT I'm willing to go for an Atoma.

Haven't really thought about going for Arkansas or India stones, I suppose they are naturals? I just saw the pricetag of the Japanese naturals and was VERY put off to say the least. I'll check out something, I'd take any recommendations.

Also how would I use the mineral oil on the diamond plate? During sharpening or after washing to preserve the metal block from rusting? I tried using water on my DMT but something that looks like rust to me appeared, then after continuing to grind through a disgusting old cleaver it disappeared. Still not sure if it was rust haha.

It seems like I'm going down the rabbit hole of stones. Also I'm considering sharpening on the side for extra income. That's partly the reason for wanting to invest in some quality stones.
Click to expand...
Realizing you replied to jeffbird... The India stones (from Norton) are manmade, in synthetic aluminum oxide. There are scores of inexpensive aluminum oxide oil stones out there, and many cheap ones of very poor quality. But Norton's India is a reputable, good quality stone. Not very expensive either. My Norton India double-sided 8" x 2" bench stone, in Coarse / Fine grit, cost me about $25 or so, when I bought it a few years ago in 2018.

Regarding using mineral oil on diamond plates, which is also my preference... Just a thin 'sheen' of oil on the surface is all that's needed. It's just enough to keep metal swarf from clinging to the surface. And periodically while sharpening, when the oil starts looking pretty black with swarf, you can just use a microfiber towel to blot the dirty oil off the surface. Then apply just a little bit more of clean oil for that 'sheen' on the surface to continue sharpening. When you're done, blot the hone again with the microfiber towel. Then it can be easily cleaned with some liquid dish soap and water - use an old toothbrush for scrubbing. The oil cleans up easily and completely this way, and you'll find that the oil also did a good job keeping the swarf from clinging. Don't need to scrub hard at all, to clean it up.

If you've sharpened simple carbon steel (non-stainless) blades on a diamond hone, using water for lubrication, it is possible for the metal swarf from the blade to rust on the surface of the hone. The rust typically shouldn't be from the hone itself (because nickel plating doesn't rust), unless the nickel is worn enough to expose the bare steel under the nickel plating. But carbon steel swarf can rust in minutes, if the hone is wetted with water. That's another plus for using oil instead, as carbon steel swarf won't stain the hone with rust, if it's oiled.
 
Last edited:
mzmrz said:
Yeah, I'm definitely on board on the quick wearing out point. I went into sharpening with the expectation of my Shapton 1000 lasting 2 lifetimes, passing it to my child or something haahahaha. When I got it I was surprised by how small it was, and lo and behold I've worn it down 1/4 in a quarter of a year.

The D2 knife(my EDC) is a pain in the ass to sharpen with my stones, I could definitely see the atomas doing great work there, so point taken! Also, having been rather unimpressed with the DMT I'm willing to go for an Atoma.

Haven't really thought about going for Arkansas or India stones, I suppose they are naturals? I just saw the pricetag of the Japanese naturals and was VERY put off to say the least. I'll check out something, I'd take any recommendations.

Also how would I use the mineral oil on the diamond plate? During sharpening or after washing to preserve the metal block from rusting? I tried using water on my DMT but something that looks like rust to me appeared, then after continuing to grind through a disgusting old cleaver it disappeared. Still not sure if it was rust haha.

It seems like I'm going down the rabbit hole of stones. Also I'm considering sharpening on the side for extra income. That's partly the reason for wanting to invest in some quality stones.
Click to expand...
Wet the stone surface with mineral oil and then sharpen. Wash it off once sharpening is completed. The oil helps prevent the swarf from clogging and glazing the stone.

India stones are a manufactured stone, which is quite hard and durable.

A 12” fine India permanently resides between the soft steel kitchen knives, Victorinox and Henckels, and the stove. Very easy to keep the edges touched up, so there rarely is a need to break out the coarse stone.
 
I'll throw this in...

A big influence on my decision to try the Naniwa stones I mentioned is from member Jason B. Jason B. here. He has vast experience in sharpening with water stones and diamond hones, in particular. I've learned a lot from his postings over the years and much of what he's recommended has eventually rung true for me when I've tried his suggestions. Check out his comments in replies #3 and #4, in the linked thread below.

D

Recommendation? Thread 'Naniwa Pro 400/800/2000 or 400/1000/3000'

Hi everyone!

I'm very new to sharpening, and after doing some research, I'm a little stuck on which stones I should order.
The focus of my question isn’t just about the size of the jumps, but more about the feel and behavior of the stones - which ones do you prefer, and why? What are your favorite stones from Naniwa?

I know that many people prefer the 800 over the 1000, but I’m wondering if the 1000 might be a better choice since it can also be used to finish western knives.
(for now, I’ll be practicing on western knives, but later I plan to work on ginsan, AEB-L, or other similar...
 
Last edited:
mzmrz said:
Wow, thank you guys both for the input! I can't wait to try the mineral oil on the DMT plate i have, I may even keep it.

The India Stones are sadly very hard to get in Europe apparently. And the grit rating is off-putting for me.
Click to expand...
I'm also curious as to your thoughts on the grit rating of the Fine India.

The thing I've come to like about the Fine India stone, as used with mainstream stainless steels in the kitchen, is that it creates a great, durable working edge for slicing of food items. Leaves a scratch pattern that's kind of medium-fine hazy on the bevels, and it retains some great toothy bite for slicing. I've previously tried such steels at a more polished finish. But I found that a polished finish usually leaves such stainless edges a bit flimsy and not very durable - they lose their bite pretty rapidly and need much more frequent touching up. By 'mainstream stainless steels', I refer to steels like Victorinox and others roughly similar in composition to something like 420HC at mid-50s HRC. When I've tried these steels at high polish, the apex tended to be a bit too soft to resist deformation for long, getting rounded or flattened too quickly in use. So, for my kitchen knives and most of the EDC knives I carry and use, most of which are in similar stainless, I've liked relying upon the Fine India for setting all my edges.

I can understand the hesitation at trying to get an India stone in Europe, and I'd also hesitate at the costs for shipping, etc. if I purchased from overseas. I purchased the 400 Naniwa to see how it would compare to the Fine India (ANSI 360-400 or so). I'm curious to see if edge performance and durability are comparable between the two stones.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top