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Whetstone Advice
- Thread starter mzmrz
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I'm in Bulgaria. Basically the only places i am willing to pay for delivery(no additional taxes) from are the ones from EU and UK.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the grit ratings were like 400 for the fine and that just doesn't seem right. I mean, My coarsest stone(prior to just getting the DMT 325 3 weeks ago) is my shapton kuromaku 1000, which I'd consider alright. If the grits are universal I just wouldn't expect to get a better edge on the fine india stone.
I also am going to get my hands on some pretty hard Japanese steel, so I can't wait for that.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the grit ratings were like 400 for the fine and that just doesn't seem right. I mean, My coarsest stone(prior to just getting the DMT 325 3 weeks ago) is my shapton kuromaku 1000, which I'd consider alright. If the grits are universal I just wouldn't expect to get a better edge on the fine india stone.
I also am going to get my hands on some pretty hard Japanese steel, so I can't wait for that.
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The Fine India's grit rating can't really be directly compared with a plated diamond hone's rating. For a given grit rating, diamond is much more aggressive than the aluminum oxide of the India, due to differences in grit protrusion above the surface of the hone and also differences in hardness and shape of the abrasive grains themselves. By actual results observed, the Fine India leaves a finer edge finish than would be left by something like a Fine DMT (rated 600), for example. And as the India breaks in with use, its finish will trend somewhat finer still. Going by the numbers alone, in comparing grit ratings between different types of hones and abrasives, is often very misleading.
Yeah, the issue with diamond comparison seems reasonable, but what about a comparison between the India Stones and any Japanese synthetic, made from the same abrasive, that being most of the commonly used ones.
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Most oil stones and water stones are made from synthetic aluminum oxide. But there are thousands of variations of synthetic aluminum oxide, as they can be engineered by each manufacturer for greater toughness (or less tough), more / less friable, and for the shape of the abrasive grains. So, even in comparing one mfr's AlOx to another mfr's AlOx, there will still likely be many differences in how they perform, even at the same grit 'size'. Also, the manner in which the abrasive grains are bound in the stone's matrix will be much different between a waterstone (which, by design, must release fresh grit to keep cutting efficiently) and an oil stone (most of which don't release grit so readily in use). That's another difference which will affect how each performs.
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Hmm, I hadn't thought about that. Thanks!
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I was just Googling 'list of alumina abrasive manufacturers' a few minutes ago ('alumina' being another term for aluminum oxide). If you look that up (I linked the Google search results below), it gets mind-boggling as to how many alumina refineries are out there, all around the world. And each of them will likely have dozens of their own product variations, each designed to enhance specific properties of an abrasive for the specific needs of the end user. And the 'end user' for them would be companies that make sharpening stones and other related products.
Now thats a rabbit hole....
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Absolutely. I'd done a similar search a few years ago, and just browsing through the individual variations from only one manufacturer would make my head spin.
Hell, I'm not doing that then hahaha
Btw what are your favorite waterstones? Did you try out the Naniwas you got recently? Also I'm going to get some oil on my DMT tomorrow to see how much better it feels.
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Haven't tried the new ones out yet. Kind of getting my mind geared up for it, reviewing water stone sharpening videos and such. I don't have enough hands-on time to form an opinion of what might be my favorite. I bought an inexpensive water stone at a local restaurant supply store a few years ago - that's the ONE I've only tried so far. And the results seemed to fit the 'inexpensive' nature of the stone. Pretty mediocre, at least as compared to the Norton India and the DMT hones I'd previously come to like so much for the knives I sharpen at home.
JJ_Colt45
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I was going post a longer reply but as I read most of the suggestions I would givd have been posted already.
I will say the Naniwa Pro Stones are great and I personally would get the 800 over the 1000 with what you say you have already. And as
Obsessed with Edges
mentioned the Aotoishi 2000 known as " The Green Brick of Joy" is an excellent stone. And I have to say I learned a lot from
Jason B.
as well and tried the Aotoishi 2000 after talking to him.
I too still use India Oil Stones on some of my older carbon steel blades and softer stainless steel. They are inexpensive and perform well for what I use them for.
I will add that if you have not seen or tried the Shapton Glass HR stones, they are excellent and I personally prefer the feel & feedback over diamond plates. They are splash and go and don't wear fast or dish nearly as quickly as most water stones. They will handle most steels stainless or carbon up to the real high carbide steels that really need diamonds or CBN to sharpen properly. I've come to use these on 80% of my blades.
I prefer larger stones also. The Atoma diamond plates 8x3 are what I use when needed. I very rarely polish an edge as a coarse edge performs better for the biggest part of my uses so I can't add a lot there. The Aotoishi 2000 stone is about as high as I go on any blade with stones. I use wood or very firm leather strops and diamond spray to touch up an edge or to deburr an edge sometimes.
I will say the Naniwa Pro Stones are great and I personally would get the 800 over the 1000 with what you say you have already. And as
Obsessed with Edges
mentioned the Aotoishi 2000 known as " The Green Brick of Joy" is an excellent stone. And I have to say I learned a lot from
Jason B.
as well and tried the Aotoishi 2000 after talking to him.I too still use India Oil Stones on some of my older carbon steel blades and softer stainless steel. They are inexpensive and perform well for what I use them for.
I will add that if you have not seen or tried the Shapton Glass HR stones, they are excellent and I personally prefer the feel & feedback over diamond plates. They are splash and go and don't wear fast or dish nearly as quickly as most water stones. They will handle most steels stainless or carbon up to the real high carbide steels that really need diamonds or CBN to sharpen properly. I've come to use these on 80% of my blades.
I prefer larger stones also. The Atoma diamond plates 8x3 are what I use when needed. I very rarely polish an edge as a coarse edge performs better for the biggest part of my uses so I can't add a lot there. The Aotoishi 2000 stone is about as high as I go on any blade with stones. I use wood or very firm leather strops and diamond spray to touch up an edge or to deburr an edge sometimes.
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Thanks!I was going post a longer reply but as I read most of the suggestions I would givd have been posted already.
I will say the Naniwa Pro Stones are great and I personally would get the 800 over the 1000 with what you say you have already. And as
I too still use India Oil Stones on some of my older carbon steel blades and softer stainless steel. They are inexpensive and perform well for what I use them for.
I will add that if you have not seen or tried the Shapton Glass HR stones, they are excellent and I personally prefer the feel & feedback over diamond plates. They are splash and go and don't wear fast and dish nearly as quickly as most water stones. They will handle most steels stainless or carbon up to the real high carbide steels that really need diamonds or CBN to sharpen properly. I've come to use these on 80% of my blades.
I prefer larger stones also. The Atoma diamond plates 8x3 are what I use when needed. I very rarely polish an edge as a coarse edge performs better for the biggest part of my uses so I can't add a lot there. The Aotoishi 2000 stone is about as high as I go on any blade with stones. I use wood or very firm leather strops and diamond spray to touch up an edge or to deburr an edge sometimes.
How does the Aotoishi compare to Chocera 3000 in terms of feel and finish btw? It seems like an interesting stone.
JJ_Colt45
Platinum Member
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The Aotoishi 2000 is just a solid choice, it's able to bring a dull edge back to sharp and it can also polish an edge. And lots of people seem to like the edges they get off the Aotoishi.
It is a soaking stone not a splash and go, but just a quick soak a few minutes or so will do. It actually cuts fairly fast and it has great feedback. It forms a slurry easily and that really does polish like a higher grit stone ... I would say it will polish as well if not a bit better than the Chosera 3000. It's kind of a unicorn in that it cuts faster than a 2000 should yet still polishes like a higher grit stone.
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JJ_Colt45
Platinum Member
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Here are quotes about the Aotoishi 2000 from a couple of our members who know a lot about sharpening.
Wow, thats awesome! Thanks!
Oh just wait, if you enjoy sharpening trying different stones and different edges is part of the enjoyment.
Those all are very nice stones, except my bad experience with the Kitayama. I would encourage you to consider the Naniwa Snow White 8000 instead. I use the higher grit synthetics up to a 20k Suehiro for straight razors. The Kitayama has hard clay particles embedded in the stone that would not soften up and they chipped the fine edge. Maybe mine was an aberration, but I would not use another Kitayama if it was free.
Here is a link to the Naniwa Snow White 8000, which is a wonderful stone:
Naniwa IF-0001 "Snow White" Pure White Whetstone #8000
Slightly smaller in size but thicker than the Chosera series, this Naniwa "Snow White" is an ultra-fine sharpening stone known to be giving excellent mirror polishing and razor-like sharpness. Many would describe the stone as a joy to work with because of the feedback. As Ryky suggested, this...
burrfectionstore.com
Naniwa Snow White Jyunpaku 8000 Grit Waterstone
Naniwa's original Junpaku Snow White Stone
www.sharpeningsupplies.com
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I think I'd go with the Suehiro Snow White Cerax version, because of the potential for cracking on the Naniwas. Also, Kitayama is alright but nothing really special, don't really like the finish.Those all are very nice stones, except my bad experience with the Kitayama. I would encourage you to consider the Naniwa Snow White 8000 instead. I use the higher grit synthetics up to a 20k Suehiro for straight razors. The Kitayama has hard clay particles embedded in the stone that would not soften up and they chipped the fine edge. Maybe mine was an aberration, but I would not use another Kitayama if it was free.
Here is a link to the Naniwa Snow White 8000, which is a wonderful stone:
Naniwa IF-0001 "Snow White" Pure White Whetstone #8000
Slightly smaller in size but thicker than the Chosera series, this Naniwa "Snow White" is an ultra-fine sharpening stone known to be giving excellent mirror polishing and razor-like sharpness. Many would describe the stone as a joy to work with because of the feedback. As Ryky suggested, this...
Naniwa Snow White Jyunpaku 8000 Grit Waterstone
Naniwa's original Junpaku Snow White Stone