Which anvil?

Y

YuriM

Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
169
Hi,

I'm just trying to get into bladesmithing (have been doing stock removal so far). I've made a Tim Lively-style washtub forge and now I'm working on an anvil. I've heard of people using a piece of railroad tie for an anvil -- I live about 5 minutes from a scrap yard, so getting my hands on one/other pieces of metal is no problem. I can then set it in a bucket of concrete for weight, as per the Tim Lively idea.

Looking on craigslist in my area, I saw a 60# Vulcan anvil on sale for $125 (probably negotiable). Would this be a good buy? From the threads I've read on here, most people use heavier anvils (100-150 lbs). I'm not looking to work on anything bigger than knives. Also knowing how busy my life is generally, it will probably not be seeing a lot of heavy use, which is why it seems pointless to me to spend $500+ on a heavy high quality anvil that I will doubtfully have the time to work on much.

Thanks for your help!

Yuri
 
You can just get some 4140 and make a post anvil. I tried the railroad tie, even a cheap cast anvil is better. 150# is a decent size, mine is about a 120#. A 60# would work for light duty small blades I'd say but I'm sure someone else can chime in about that.
 
Most any large piece of steel will work as an anvil to get started. See what you can find at the scrap yard. Often there is a large drop of round or square stock that will do nicely. Be aware that it won't look that heavy, but a two foot piece of 6" round/square will weigh 200-250#.

Also, for the record, railroad ties are the wooden timbers that railroad track is placed on. 18-24" of track will make an OK small anvil.

Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
Also, for the record, railroad ties are the wooden timbers that railroad track is placed on. 18-24" of track will make an OK small anvil.
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LOL Stacy, man, I can't believe I missed that...once again, the man is correct :D
 
Back on Maui, I worked on a large hotel construction. A couple of times the hydraulic chipping bits from the excavators wore blunt on the ends, and they just set them aside. These bits were 6-8" in diameter, and almost four feet long. The attachment ends of them were very nice and flat. I asked the operators, and they said I could have one. I guess they don't sharpen those things out here. Anyway, I kept meaning to grab it but never got all the way over there with the Gradall during a break. One day it was gone. I've been kicking myself since, I can only imagine how great one of those would have been as a post anvil. Maybe you could find something like that in your area.
 
bladsmth said:
Also, for the record, railroad ties are the wooden timbers that railroad track is placed on. 18-24" of track will make an OK small anvil.
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"Railroad track", thank you. I was talking to a person who works at the local scrapyard about getting a piece of "railroad rail" (heck, that's what it is... that's why they are RAILroads). They said "do you mean railroad tie?" indicating a section of track, which led to my confusion. I felt that since they'd been working with the stuff for decades, they would know the proper term.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll look around some more for a largeish block of steel. They did not have one at the scrapyard when I went looking the other day, though plenty of track. Considering the Vulcan. There is actually a 150# Peter Wright being sold in my area, asking price $350... but that is just a bit steep for me.
 
YuriM said:
"Railroad track", thank you. I was talking to a person who works at the local scrapyard about getting a piece of "railroad rail" (heck, that's what it is... that's why they are RAILroads). They said "do you mean railroad tie?" indicating a section of track, which led to my confusion. I felt that since they'd been working with the stuff for decades, they would know the proper term.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll look around some more for a largeish block of steel. They did not have one at the scrapyard when I went looking the other day, though plenty of track. Considering the Vulcan. There is actually a 150# Peter Wright being sold in my area, asking price $350... but that is just a bit steep for me.
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get one or the other anvil
I have 2 peter wrights, they are both great
buy the vulcan too, 125 is a good price for an anvil

I made a rail anvil once, traded it to my father in law for one of the Wrights:D
good luck

-Page
 
Dropped by another local scrapyard, and they had just the thing: a solid 260-lb block of steel measuring about 6" x 6" x 24" or so. Looks like the mass from a pile driver or a counterweight of some sort. What kind of steel/iron would that be? Cast-iron? Or something better? I've yet to test it for rebound... but I only paid $35 for it and it'll surely work as good if not better than a cheap cast-iron anvil from Harbor Freight. If it *is* just cast iron, I can always weld a harder surface onto it.

Man, I nearly ruptured myself lifting that thing! :D

(Dunno if anyone was actually interested in learning that, but I thought I'd share anyway for the sake of those who might find themselves faced with the same dilemma)
 
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Not likely to be cast iron but could be cast steel. It's highly likely steel of some type. In a lot of ways, it doesn't matter. A 260# 6"x6" will work better than good. Howard Clark spent years with a 6"x6"x long" piece of mild steel as an anvil and never looked back. One rounded edge is handy. A person can weld on a hardy hole/pritchel hole.

Mike
 
This is kinda along the same lines, sorry if I missed the answer somewhere else.

Can you weld/attach a hardened plate of steel to a piece of unhardened/mild steel to make an anvil? And would that really just hold up against wear or could it help with any rebound?


And how likely is it to find hardened (or unhardened if the above works to help rebound) 6x6 steel at a scrap yard?
 
Some hardened steels don't weld worth a darn. Many can be welded, though. Takes knowing the steels and the condition, necessary preheat and cool-down temps and rates, along with low to no hydrogen rod. Search welding sites for data links... this is industry stuff and the information is readily available.

The place to look for hardened steel in small pieces... known as "drops"... is tool steel supply houses. The midwest is full of them... other places less so. 4140 is very common to find as drops.

Alternatively, a piece of 4140 of the right size that is not hardened (usually called 4140-DCF as in 'decarb free' as opposed to 4140-PH as in 'pre-hard', which comes around 28-32 HRc), can have it's surface flame hardened. Takes a big rosebud and a big acetylene tank. It will air harden and temper itself if the right technique is used. Quenching and tempering is easier. A person would be advised to use water and not oil as a quenchant (sprayed on)... =]

Person doesn't need 6"x6", either... 4" round or square works, as does 3"x5", 4"x6", etc.

Multiply dimensions together... thickness/width/length... to get cubic inches, then multiply the sum by 0.283. That will give the weight (steel only).

Mike
 
go mike said:
And how likely is it to find hardened (or unhardened if the above works to help rebound) 6x6 steel at a scrap yard?
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Well, it took me 2 visits to different scrapyards to find the 6x6x~24 piece, and that scrapyard had at least another half-dozen pieces the same size (still not sure what they had originally been used as). I don't think it would be difficult at all to find a plate of hardened or hardenable steel. The difficult bit is researching what kind of steel this or that piece of scrap is made of.

I live in a small town in the middle of nowhere. If you live in a more urban area, the scrap yards are sure to be bigger, more densely packed and have lots of goodies (I dearly love scrap yards! :D)

Can't wait to get off work to play with my find!
 
Yuri,

Running a file on your soon-to-be anvil would give you some idea of it's hardness.

If you've got a portable grinder or stone for a hand drill or stone for a dremel/foredom tool, sparking the steel might tell you something.

Does the piece you got have a form other than long square?

I'd tend to use it as it is and think about putting a hardened plate on it only if I had to.

Mike
 
i've got a 4x4 that is about 14 inches long solid steel drop that i have, i've beat the crap out of and so has my father in law. if you go crazy can you dent it a bit sure, but by the time you rough up the face to where it's bothering you. you'll be able to afford a "real" anvil. course an angle grinder and 5 minutes will fix it right up too. i wouldnt worry about doing anything to it!

oh on the peter wright anvil if you can get it; do it! i've got a 175# and its great!

good luck

jake
 
Mike Krall said:
Does the piece you got have a form other than long square?
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I'm not sure what you're asking. :confused: It is a uniform long square. One of the square faces has a cylindrical projection in the center, about 1.5" in diameter, maybe 3" inches long. This has a hole in it, like the whole thing is meant to be suspended from it. I've been thinking about using an angle grinder to cut it off, which would enable me stand the thing on end. I dunno if I should do that (seems to be what most people do with square bar like this) or if it would work if laid on its side. Any suggestions?

I'll bounce a ball bearing off it tomorrow to see what the rebound is like, and I'll try the file and spark tests. I'm waiting for my forge lining to dry out, or I'd have tried pounding some steel already!
 
do like i did and stand it up on end and weld it to a base plate. i welded on a thick top plate of hardened steel. works amazing, and it is over 300 pounds.
 
Yuri,
The fact that there are several identical pieces makes it sound like some sort of counterweight. Maybe from an elevator system. If they are selling them for $35, that is a great deal. That is about 13.5 cents a pound. I think you are best to do as you thought, and cut off the round extension. That will allow you to set the piece on end. A good way to mount the drop is to put it upright in 14-16" wash tub, and fill the tub with cement.This also gives you a good place to set hot things while forging. Set the drop a little closer to one side so you can stand close to the anvil while working.
Stacy
 
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