which BM folder = best fighter?

The Rukus is the easy choice with the long, spear point (penetration on stabs, the most damaging of knife attacks) plus the large guard to keep your hand where it needs to be. Easy axis deployment is a plus. The 710 is at least worth considering, but the Skirmish is a bit silly.
 
I have all three. Rukus is superior as a fighter. Skirmish is pretty good but I found it wasn't very "pointy." The 710 is an elegant knife, with pretty good reach for size, but no guard and so forward slip on hard resistance is an issue. Its the least controversial looking of the three, if that's an issue. I've often carried the Rukus with jeans and the 710 when in business clothes. But to answer your specific question, its the Rukus.
 
My 2.5 cents...

As far as light goes, lighting deters crime. A good Surefire is a must have, as for any type of defensive move, you have to be able to see what you are moving on.

Good pepper spray is an excellent alternative. The good stuff will stop a freight train, however, like a gun, it is only effective with positive contact.

If you want to carry a knife for self defense, carry a knife designed specifically for self defense as any real usage of self defense is going to put you in court, especially when using a larger blade and if you butcher your attacker in public domain. I recommend the Spyderco Civilian to everyone because without training, you can do a hell of a lot of damage. With training, you can do an unforeseen amount of damage. If you want to be faster to the draw, get it waved. None of those Benchmades are designed as a self defense weapon. The Benchmade Infidel is a defensive piece, as are a few fixed blades Benchmade makes including the 175 CBK push blade. The Cold Steel Grande Vaquero and a few other pocket pals are. The Spyderco Ronin, Yojimbo, Chinook, Gunting, Civilian, Endura Wave and Matriarch are. Additionally, if you are not carrying a crowned flashlight, you may want something to use as a close range, medium intensity impact weapon. I would personally place more emphasis on using the blade, as when you draw you best be willing to cut human flesh, and this is not something everyone is willing to do. I emphasize human flesh because in a real encounter, it would be just that, real.


There are things knives can and cannot do for defensive purposes. Just keep in mind:
1) A knife is effective for close range combat only, and indeed it may be the most effective close range weapon as knives when used properly in close range can be more effective than firearms as the mechanics of it as generally simpler and fewer things can go wrong. Karambit experts are probably the scariest users to see the damage they can do close range.
2) Drawing a knife from medium or long range can result in someone yielding a gun and shooting you (in other terms, you are provoking a situation). Subsequently, if you yield a knife in close range and know that an attacker has a gun, letting them simply run away to a safe shooting distance may not be a good option. If you pull a knife on them and cut them but still leave them in a mobile and functioning state, they are going to be more inclined to shoot you. On the other hand, one has to realize when your self defense becomes offense. Stabbing a guy 7 times in the back who is trying to retreat looks very bad in court. I present this situation because it is lose/lose situation and the line between continuing combat versus ending an engagement is a very light shade of gray.
3) If an attacker sees you have a knife but believes you will not use it, they will continue on the offensive side and it is not uncommon for them to try to take your weapon from you which is the absolute worst case scenario. I do not abide by the intimidation clause as if that fails, you need a backup. It is like flashing a gun without bullets; indeed it works some of the time, but when it fails, it can get you killed. If you are going to draw it, use it, and use it effectively.
4) It is a unique experience to cut human flesh as it is so personal. In many respects, the thought is repulsive and some people cannot bring themselves to slice open another human being. If that is the case, do not draw your knife in a self defense situation. I say that all so bluntly for a reason. You must be willing to literally carve someone apart and accept the fact that they could die in front of your eyes and whoever else you are with. When someone gets cut up, it is not a pretty sight at all. There will be both legal and moral consequences if you use a blade for self defense.
5) Encounters involving using knives as defensive pieces are quick unlike the media publicizes so I suppose fighting knives may not be a good term as you only really need to make one advancement for something to end. For example, a user knowing where the carotid artery is and being able to slice in that area is going to end an engagement very quickly.
carotidimage2.jpg

Notice where the carotid arteries lie and how protecting them, the chest and belly is practically impossible when actively attacking. There is no exceptionally effective way of shielding this vulnerability, even with many modern armor advancements. A larger blade with a skilled user will quickly find an opening and that is the means to the end. If someone's carotid artery gets sliced open, they are going to die very quickly.
6) Non lethal usage with a blade is ideal, but this is far from the common case. Humans are fragile creatures and if you slice or stab into one, there is a chance they are going to die despite current medical technology. Using non lethal self defense, say cutting the leg or arm, is indeed ideal and you may have openings to do this...on the other hand, you may not or your adrenaline may compel you to go straight to lethal self defense.
 
I'de consider...

-Grip-blood is more slippery than water so oil is a better simulator. I generally recommend G10 as its grip is nice when wet.
-Size-know the limits of your State
-Ease of opening-can you access it quickly and reliably?
-Retention-is this knife going to stay firm in your hand? (The Karambit is arguably the best because of the finger ring)
-Training-practice using it in different situations from different scenarios

I recommend the Civilian over others because its hollow grind Reverse S Curved Hawkbill blade is the slicer of slicers. That paper thin tip seers through skin and even thick leather jackets. The teeth tear as they move through any fibrous material and the design and angle of the blade automatically cuts deeper as you drag it along or as an attacker tries to move away. I indeed feel slashing is a much more effective than stabbing. A 3 inch deep stab that is an inch long is not going to bleed out nearly as effective as a 10 inch long slash which is 2.5 inches deep. The sight of ones own blood will indeed scare an attacker away. While I do not put much faith in the intimidation clause, an attacker would have to be a nut case to continue in their chosen path upon seeing the Civilian. That final curve on the tip allows the manipulating of body parts and does not allow one to pull away. It counters to the wrist pleasingly well. James A. Keating calls this trapping, but it can be done with legs and arms. If an attacker tries to pull away, they are going to skin themselves in the process. That hook is also great for the carotid artery and the eye socket, which is exceptionally strong. The concept of the Civilian is control and manipulation. One does not need to be physically strong as you can use an attackers body force against them (Bram Gunting speaks on this a lot with kinetic energy). Finally, the Civilian can block exceptionally well. I am not talking about a specific move but it can be held in the hand to where the non sharpened spine contours to the user's arm and the sharpened blade is facing the opposite direction and it will catch whatever runs over it. This position is almost impossible to free the knife away and quickly can be changed into a hammer grip. If you haven't yet had the pleasure of this knife, by all means try it.

And finally, if you can run like hell to avoid a situation, DO IT! A hurt ego heals very quickly! :p
 
thanks everyone for the great advices, especially to NickZac, the way you presented the scenario is very real and the information provided is very informative.

I do have a question though, I've always read that stabbing is much more lethal than slashing, thus the idea behind fencing. Of course I believe that a deep slash to the arm or leg is much more debilitating than a stab and superior in a self defense situation without killing someone. But can you elaborate on the lethality of stabbing v.s. slashing?
 
I carry a 710 in M2 and love it. It is long enough to reach vitals and looks fairly conservative. The Ruckus is a great knife as well, but a little big for everyday carry if you wear business clothes. If not, the Ruckus is your pick.

The 710 does not scream tactical killer knife the way the Ruckus does and that may be a consideration for you. As far a slashing vs. stabbing, in an all out fight to the death against another knife or gun wielding maniac, both would be appropriate and lots of it. If you are just defending yourself against a bigger or multiple unarmed subjects, your actions will be under greater scrutiny. Consider how a single stab wound to the torso that stops that action or multiple slashes to extremities and/or torso to stop that action will be viewed by a jury. Juries are strongly influenced by what they see and big, gaping slash wounds are much more dramatic and offensive than a small stab wound. Overkill and even "perceived" overkill could land you in hot water. Just wanted to share a viewpoint not always considered but one that I see often in my job. I understand the "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six" concept, but the reality is if you use your knife against another it will be investigated by law enforcement, screened by the District Attorney's office and possibly heard by a judge and jury. Buy a good blade, train well with it AND be aware of the legal ramifications of your actions and how the public ie a jury will view them. Just my 2 cents, sorry for being long-winded.
 
thanks everyone for the great advices, especially to NickZac, the way you presented the scenario is very real and the information provided is very informative.

I do have a question though, I've always read that stabbing is much more lethal than slashing, thus the idea behind fencing. Of course I believe that a deep slash to the arm or leg is much more debilitating than a stab and superior in a self defense situation without killing someone. But can you elaborate on the lethality of stabbing v.s. slashing?

Unless you are carrying a massive blade which can shishkabob your opponent, slashing will be more effective. The Civilian allows you to drag the knife along the arms, legs, face, abdomen, etc. As the knife moves, it burrows deeper and deeper and any cut with a Civilian is going to be exceptionally deep. If you slice someone's arm muscle, that arm is done working no matter how much adrenaline an attacker produces.
 
+1 on the Ruckus, pepper spray, flashlight, moving to a better neighborhood, and getting training! Another consideration is a very loud whistle (3 long blasts).

There are many options, but the trick is to know yourself well enough to figure out what will be most effective for you. Even though the sight of my knife has saved my bacon twice, as I learn more about SD I would be much more likely to go empty handed now- more options and more control.

If you can find a traditional combat jujitsu (not Brazilian) you can learn some very effective basic techniques fairly quickly- of course, the first thing any SD training teaches you is awareness and avoidance. It sounds like you really think you're in a bad situation- get out of it! If you're right, eventually something is going to happen and either you will get hurt or possibly have even more trouble if you win- the police/courts, the BG's friends/relatives to deal with. Even if you're wrong- what price is the fear and paranoia worth?

For where you're at right now- how about a tac flashlight in one hand, pepper spray in the other and the whistle in your mouth? Keep the Ruckus at easy access as a last resort. This may sound silly, but if you're seriously thinking you will be attacked, get over the embarrassment. At least it will be obvious you stayed non-lethal as long as you could, but really- just get out of there.
 
It's funny how you should say that, I've trained brazillian Jujitsu for 2 years. Although I feel pretty confident going to the ground with an untrained opponent (unarmed of course) but realisticly what's the chance of that ever happening?

+1 on the Ruckus, pepper spray, flashlight, moving to a better neighborhood, and getting training! Another consideration is a very loud whistle (3 long blasts).

There are many options, but the trick is to know yourself well enough to figure out what will be most effective for you. Even though the sight of my knife has saved my bacon twice, as I learn more about SD I would be much more likely to go empty handed now- more options and more control.

If you can find a traditional combat jujitsu (not Brazilian) you can learn some very effective basic techniques fairly quickly- of course, the first thing any SD training teaches you is awareness and avoidance. It sounds like you really think you're in a bad situation- get out of it! If you're right, eventually something is going to happen and either you will get hurt or possibly have even more trouble if you win- the police/courts, the BG's friends/relatives to deal with. Even if you're wrong- what price is the fear and paranoia worth?

For where you're at right now- how about a tac flashlight in one hand, pepper spray in the other and the whistle in your mouth? Keep the Ruckus at easy access as a last resort. This may sound silly, but if you're seriously thinking you will be attacked, get over the embarrassment. At least it will be obvious you stayed non-lethal as long as you could, but really- just get out of there.
 
Most americans vastly underestimate a knife versus a gun. A healthy man can move 14 feet from a standing start in 1 second. In the type of self defence situation you are likely to find yourself in a knife is a much better choice.
You are also have much less chance of hurting an innocent bystander.
Niczack particularly had some good advice.. Learning where all the arteries and vital organs are will be very helpfull. There is even an artery on the leg that can be reached from lying on the ground and is to quote Hannibal Lecter "like cutting the bottom out of a styrofoam cup".
 
come on, be honest. How often do you get into knife fights? Just steer clear of the shitty neighborhoods where you are guaranteed to get jumped and who cares? Get a knife that feels nice, looks good, and will stand up to the test of time. If someone pulls a knife on me, my first reaction will never be to bust out mine. Moreover, a knife is the least of the potential threads an assailant could pose. If he has a gun, then your knife seems a little superfluous. This is why I would suggest either not worrying about knife fights, or always wearing kevlar everything. Since the second option is less practical, just say fuck it. If he is willing to pull a knife on you, he probably knows how to use it better than you do. (statistically that is. Obviously if you have some sort of special training, then this does not apply.) Either you rely on a gun, or you are willing to just hand over your wallet. Middleground really doesnt make much sense. Ergo, fighting knives should be for collection purposes only, and edc knives should be for practical purposes only. I would never consider the offensive potential of a knife as an important factor of whether I buy it. Carry a pretty little knife to do chores, and if you seriously consider a self defense weapon to be a necessity, invest in a gun. Period.
 
If you wear jeans everyday to work, then the Rukus. If you wear slacks, then the 710. Forget about the Skirmish I don't get that knife at all :confused:
 
come on, be honest. How often do you get into knife fights? Just steer clear of the shitty neighborhoods where you are guaranteed to get jumped and who cares? Get a knife that feels nice, looks good, and will stand up to the test of time. If someone pulls a knife on me, my first reaction will never be to bust out mine. Moreover, a knife is the least of the potential threads an assailant could pose. If he has a gun, then your knife seems a little superfluous. This is why I would suggest either not worrying about knife fights, or always wearing kevlar everything. Since the second option is less practical, just say fuck it. If he is willing to pull a knife on you, he probably knows how to use it better than you do. (statistically that is. Obviously if you have some sort of special training, then this does not apply.) Either you rely on a gun, or you are willing to just hand over your wallet. Middleground really doesnt make much sense. Ergo, fighting knives should be for collection purposes only, and edc knives should be for practical purposes only. I would never consider the offensive potential of a knife as an important factor of whether I buy it. Carry a pretty little knife to do chores, and if you seriously consider a self defense weapon to be a necessity, invest in a gun. Period.

This is a misconception. In close range scenarios, you cannot draw a gun, remove the safeties (if any), aim, and successfully fire as quickly as someone can gut you open. There is a lot more to firearms usage than there is to knife usage. Countless demonstrations have shown even at 20 feet apart that someone using an open holster cannot draw, aim, fire and make contact before getting slashed.
 
This is a misconception. In close range scenarios, you cannot draw a gun, remove the safeties (if any), aim, and successfully fire as quickly as someone can gut you open. There is a lot more to firearms usage than there is to knife usage. Countless demonstrations have shown even at 20 feet apart that someone using an open holster cannot draw, aim, fire and make contact before getting slashed.
I have to disagree with this one.
I've seen some really fast shooters...especially those who do instinctive "point shooting" from the hip.
 
Whats wrong with the skirmish???

Few good videos..... (gun and knife fight)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nYAXjKkLmJs

There is another video that I can't find that basically tests the speed of a gun draw........they have someone rush the shooter from 10 20 and 30 feet away and see where the attacker is when the gun is drawn. At 10-15 feet the attacker wins every time. I will keep looking for it.
 
This is a misconception. In close range scenarios, you cannot draw a gun, remove the safeties (if any), aim, and successfully fire as quickly as someone can gut you open. There is a lot more to firearms usage than there is to knife usage. Countless demonstrations have shown even at 20 feet apart that someone using an open holster cannot draw, aim, fire and make contact before getting slashed.


I've seen this argument over and over; that a gun cannot stop a knife guy within 20 feet, etc. We're not comparing apples with apples. This is a fallacious argument, in that it assumes that the knife player has his knife out and ready to go, while the gun player does not have his gun in hand and still must draw the gun. Given that scenario, yea, the knife player will likely gut him.

What if both guys have their weapons out and ready to go? The gun will beat the knife.

Some guys who regularly carry guns do, indeed, realize the efficacy of having their hand on their gun at all times. The fastest draw is when the gun is already in hand. I'd rather have my hand on my Glock 27 in my jacket pocket, as opposed to a knife, in a close-in situation if I thought that life-threatening violence was about to happen. I have no doubt I could pull it and shoot a knife player from 5 feet out, let alone from 20 feet out. Let him come at me, it'll just make the hits easier.
 
In a high stress situation your fine motor skills go down the tubes. My instructor demonstrated this in our defense class. This one women was a pretty good shot, even without using the sights, quick shooting....

We did this drill....put a sillouette out at 30 feet, and put 5 rounds in the gun. Shut down the lights....and we all lined up with our guns on the ledge in front of us. He would sneak up behind one of us (in this case her), and shine a powerful flashlight at the target down range and he started yelling loud to create excitment. At the same time he reeled in her target fast to simulate someone running towards her. She was to grab the gun and empty the clip as fast as she could. She only hit the target one out of five, and not even in a good spot.....

Same reasoning why 2-3 cops empy 16 round clips and only land 3-4 shots on an attacker......like I said your fine motor skills go down the tubes..... KNIFE WINS.........
 
She was to grab the gun and empty the clip as fast as she could.

Again, we're talking about a situation where the person with the gun must draw the gun first to get it out and going. This eats up time and it causes stress. People get flustered. Do you think she would have done any better if she was forced to draw a folder out of her pocket and use it to defend the charging attacker? It sounds to me like maybe the best thing would be to run like hell. Or wouldn't it be even better to have your hand on your gun already when the attack starts?

Also, there are some guys like Gabe Suarez who teach to shoot on the move. If you need to get out of the way of a charging attacker, you had better move laterally to get out of the line of attack. I'd rather be moving laterally with a gun in my hand.
 
In a high stress situation your fine motor skills go down the tubes. My instructor demonstrated this in our defense class. This one women was a pretty good shot, even without using the sights, quick shooting....

We did this drill....put a sillouette out at 30 feet, and put 5 rounds in the gun. Shut down the lights....and we all lined up with our guns on the ledge in front of us. He would sneak up behind one of us (in this case her), and shine a powerful flashlight at the target down range and he started yelling loud to create excitment. At the same time he reeled in her target fast to simulate someone running towards her. She was to grab the gun and empty the clip as fast as she could. She only hit the target one out of five, and not even in a good spot.....

Same reasoning why 2-3 cops empy 16 round clips and only land 3-4 shots on an attacker......like I said your fine motor skills go down the tubes..... KNIFE WINS.........

Perhaps a useful simulation, but not exactly what we're talking about here.
Most cops while being "tested" will draw their weapon, assume their stance (weaver, triangle, or wahtever), sight their target, and then shoot.
We were taught the same thing in the military.
But I have learned from some experinced folks that there is a better way for instinctive close quarters shooting...
You clear your holster and shoot from the hip or from the belt-buckle, never taking your eyes off the approaching target.
It does take practice, but it is very fast and rather accurate at close range.
 
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