Which combination of benchstones

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Hyperborean

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I intend to buy a couple of sharpening benchstones, one coarser for reprofiling etc and one finer for finishing the edge and regular maintenance. Can some experienced user tell me what would be a better, more appropriate combination (I prefer relatively thin edges oriented toward slicing performance) :

1) DMT coarse diasharp benchstone and a Spyderco medium(brown) grit benchstone

2) DMT fine diasharp benchstone and a Spyderco medium grit benchstone


3) Norton Coarse/Fine India combination and either Sypderco medium or fine benchstone


4) Any other suggestion is welcome


If I used Spyderco Fine Benchstone instead of Medium for finishing would the egde sharpness last longer? Is fine ceramic really necessary?

Thanks,

Aleks
 
I thought of that option, but I read that waterstones wear down very quickly and need to be flatened periodicaly. They seem to be costly. 60 USD for 1000/4000 combination. How long do they last? So far I have used Spyderco ProFile Set and a rather coarse silicon carbide stone (intended for sharpening scythes I think). Thanks for suggestion anyway.
 
I would be hard pressed to stick to only 2 benchstones. I use a DMT XX coarse Diasharp for reprofiling, a DMT coarse Diasharp, and a DMT fine Diasharp for my coarser stuff. I then have all 3 grits of Spyderco ceramics, along with Shapton Glasstones in 1000/2000/8000, along with a Norton 1K/8K combo stone that has been pretty much retired since I got the Shaptons. As long as you aren't doing very extensive reprofiles you can probably get away with the DMT coarse diasharp and Spyderco medium, though I would recommend the DMT Coarse and Shapton 1000 if I was stuck with only 2. The coarse will do a decent job of reprofiling as well as putting an agressive slicing edge on the knife, and the Shapton will refine that edge to a good compromise of slicing agression and push cutting (kind of like the Spyderco medium stone), but I've found the Shapton Glasstones to cut cleaner with less burring than the Spyderco ceramics. The maintenance of the Shapton would then be an issue, but it is easy kept flat by your DMT Coarse stone. The Spyderco will only require cleaning without the need for flattening, and it is a very good stone as well, I just feel that the Shapton cuts faster and cleaner. Going to finer grit stones will increase your push cutting ability, but will decrease your slicing agression and slicing edge retention. If you do mainly push cuts you will probably want a finer stone to finish on. With a Spyderco medium or Shapton 1K you should be able to pop hairs with practice, but the finer grits will get you solidly into tree topping territory and will help you if you mainly do push cutting (say whittling).

Mike
 
Thank you Mike. I haven't heard for Shapton stones before. If not now I will eventually buy some waterstone. Btw I was primarily interested to know whether a DMT fine benchstone is just good enough for reprofiling edge angles? Somebody I know has a DMT fine benchstone and it seemed to me coarser than Spyderco medium stone not to mention its fast cut rate in comparison to spyderco ceramic. I have a concern that I might wear down the blade too quickly if I use a DMT coarse diamond benchstone.
 
I have a XXcourse DMT stone for reprofiling.
Then medium (400grit), fine (600) and super fine (1200)Ezelap plates.
Then Ill go to the sharpmaker ceramic stones and if I want to go the extra step... Ill strop with chromium oxide on leather.
 
Come on guys-learn proper terminology. It's rebevel, not reprofile.
 
Hyperborean said:
Thank you Mike. I haven't heard for Shapton stones before. If not now I will eventually buy some waterstone. Btw I was primarily interested to know whether a DMT fine benchstone is just good enough for reprofiling edge angles? Somebody I know has a DMT fine benchstone and it seemed to me coarser than Spyderco medium stone not to mention its fast cut rate in comparison to spyderco ceramic. I have a concern that I might wear down the blade too quickly if I use a DMT coarse diamond benchstone.
Click to expand...

The DMT fine will reprofile (OK, rebevel, sorry Bill) faster than the Spyderco Medium, but that isn't saying much. The DMT coarse will rebevel much faster than the DMT Fine, as well as put a good finish on a knife for slicing. The DMT Fine will put on a still decent slicing finish that will shave and push cut better than the Coarse stone, but again it will rebevel slower and if you get waterstones it will take much longer to flatten the waterstone than the Coarse stone. If you are using microbevels you will get great ease of sharpening and longer blade life, as you are working very little steel with each sharpening. They might be something for you to consider, I sharpen almost all of my knives with microbevels for the reasons I noted.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
I would be hard pressed to stick to only 2 benchstones.
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I would be pretty satisfied in general with x-coarse SiC-waterstone + 600 DMT. In some cases, ok add the UF Spyderco ceramic. The more grits the better, but to start I think those two (class not specific stones) would cover most people from altering the edge angle (or primary bevel if you are Thom) and then finish sharpening.

-Cliff
 
gunmike1 said:
The DMT fine will reprofile (OK, rebevel, sorry Bill) faster than the Spyderco Medium, but that isn't saying much. The DMT coarse will rebevel much faster than the DMT Fine, as well as put a good finish on a knife for slicing. The DMT Fine will put on a still decent slicing finish that will shave and push cut better than the Coarse stone, but again it will rebevel slower and if you get waterstones it will take much longer to flatten the waterstone than the Coarse stone. If you are using microbevels you will get great ease of sharpening and longer blade life, as you are working very little steel with each sharpening. They might be something for you to consider, I sharpen almost all of my knives with microbevels for the reasons I noted.

Mike
Click to expand...


Thank you again Mike. I also considered buying only DMT coarse and fine diasharp stones since I already have those spyderco ceramic "files" which I use for edge finishing but I'm tired sharpening knives with that ceramic stick. It's just pain in the ass. Btw I didn't quite understand you said regarding microbevels and longer blade life. Wouldn't regular use of DMT coarse stone quickly eat up the blade?
 
So far, for me, it's been unimpressive. I have plenty of stones in and around it in "fine-ness", and for their purposes, I like ceramics better. Once I get to the DMT red or green, I tend to go ceramic or waterstone.

I'm going to be ordering some of the Shaptons soon, and can't wait to try them.
 
sodak said:
So far, for me, it's been unimpressive. I have plenty of stones in and around it in "fine-ness", and for their purposes, I like ceramics better. Once I get to the DMT red or green, I tend to go ceramic or waterstone.

I'm going to be ordering some of the Shaptons soon, and can't wait to try them.
Click to expand...


I found the same thing, and until I got my Shapton Glasstones I went from DMT fine to the ceramics. Once I had some burring (minor, but annoying) with my ceramics on ZDP I got a Norton 1K/8K, but it gouged some (not too bad, but still gouged) when I got ham fisted and needed a lot of flattening. I then got the Shaptons and have been using them almost exclusively when I go finer than the DMT Fine finish. The cut good and stay pretty flat. I believe they are a ceramic bonded to a glass plate, you can see right through the stones. I have been very happy with the performance so far. Let us know how they turn out for you.

Cliff, you are too practical in your stone selections! Of course the stones you mentioned would keep all of your knives cutting just fine, but after having lots of grits at your disposal I would find it hard to restrict myself to 2 at this point, but when I look at it from the proper starting stone perspective of the thread you are dead on. As starter stones the X coarse SiC and DMT Fine would be a cheap and effective way to go, being able to reprofile and to put a good, sharp working edge on a knife that both slices and push cuts well.

Mike
 
Hyperborean said:
I intend to buy a couple of sharpening benchstones, one coarser for reprofiling etc and one finer for finishing the edge and regular maintenance. Can some experienced user tell me what would be a better, more appropriate combination (I prefer relatively thin edges oriented toward slicing performance) :

1) DMT coarse diasharp benchstone and a Spyderco medium(brown) grit benchstone

2) DMT fine diasharp benchstone and a Spyderco medium grit benchstone


3) Norton Coarse/Fine India combination and either Sypderco medium or fine benchstone


4) Any other suggestion is welcome


If I used Spyderco Fine Benchstone instead of Medium for finishing would the egde sharpness last longer? Is fine ceramic really necessary?

Thanks,

Aleks
Click to expand...

DMT Extra Extra Coarse - D8XX - nothing is better for reprofiling! and DMT Extra Fine D11E - ideal combinatiom
you may add D8EE later.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
To throw in my $0.02:
I think 3 grits are necessary. More is useful but luxury. The three grits should be devided into coarse or extra coarse, medium (what the japanese would still call coarse) and fine/extra fine. The exact grits don't matter an are largely a matter of preference.

- coarse could be 120, 220 or 320 and is for heavy rebeveling or in extreme cases even reprofiling (:), see Bill, if it is so dear to your heart I am willing to learn :)).

- medium could be 600-1500 is to set up a new edge on a well used but otherwise well cared for knife

- fine could be 2000-15000 (or even 30000) and is to polish out the edge or for quick touch ups like a strop

The choice of combination will create a unique edge and work process. A very coarse stone will make reprofiling/beveling quick work but will require more work to polish out the scratches. Many like the DMT XX, which I recently purchased, but I am more the type to spend more time on a finer stone. I like to start at 700 grit and use only 220 and down for really nasty work.

Also a combination of 600 and 8000 will create a different edge than 1000/3000. The former will have larger "teeth" which are more finely polished, while the latter will create a more cohesive edge with finer teeth which are less polished. on an axe and chopper I would definitely go with the 1000/3000, but for EDC I would be hard pressed to declare a personal preference. I know I don't like unfinished edges, but there are times when I really like an edge that is made with a large gap in grits like 600 (or even 220)/6000 or 10000. They are almost as agressive as a serrated edge but still leave a fairly clean cut, and sometimes I am really fond of the ultimate fully polished out mirror finished push cutters.

I am absolutely convinced, that nobody can tell you what you ultimately like best, but any of these combinations will work. Without one of the three grits though are going to lack functionality.

Good luck!
 
Thank you for additional information. Based on what I have read here at BF I have rethought ;) my sharpening requirements. It seems I would be better off with a waterstone than with a Spyderco ceramic benchstone (I am under impression ceramic benchstones aren't used a lot for certain reasons like slow cut rate, fast clogging). Ceramics (even "medium") are good for touching up the edge not really for sharpening, and beside I already got ceramic files.
What do you think about this choice: DMT coarse diasharp benchstone and a Norton cobimantion 1000/4000 waterstone? Although on the Norton website they say 4000 grit waterstone is not for true polishing. Anyway I don't intend to sharpen razors etc so that probably doesn't matter much plus I could use green polishing compound and a strope if I needed polished edge.

Aleksander
 
That sounds like a great combination. If you want really good polishing, Thiers-Isaard makes a great paste that you can use on leather or linen, and works well for me. It comes in a stick, kind of like lipstick.
 
I used a cheapo black silicon carbide hone for years to regrind bevels and it works great. The only thing better is the DMT d8xx. I'm also a big Shapton pro water stone fan but for the price the Spyderco ceramics are great and I still use them alot for quick touch ups, no water no mess just uncover and a swipe or two and done.
 
Hello,
in a few days I am hopefully getting my waterstones :) ... however the things turned out somewhat different than I had planned (as usual in life)... I intended to purchase norton waterstone 1000/4000 combination and diasharp coarse stone from the Knifecenter.com but they don't ship to the country I live in (btw I noticed that some USA online knife sellers no longer ship internationaly) ...so I found (from yuzuha's posts) about a few online stores (in Germany) which sell japanese waterstones and a few days ago I ordered from one (www.dick.biz): King Sun Tiger 250/1000 combination (smaller sized, inexpensive), Cerax 1000/3000 combination stone (around 48 USD) with a base and a cheap truing block...they also sell 8 inch XXC DMT Diasharp diamond stones but their price is 65 Euros which is around 88 USD :jerkit:. If I am not mistaken there hasn't been much talk about cerax waterstones here so if anyone is interested I will let you know how they perform...
 
Hello,

yesterday I finally got my japanese waterstones and a truing block. Suehiro Cerax 1000/3000 combination waterstone and 6 inch Matsunaga Sun Tiger 250/1000 combination waterstone. The waterstones were neatly packed. I unpacked the Cerax stone and sharpened a couple of kitchen knives and a Mora 2000 for a start. I was surprised by how soft these sharpening stones are. You can see slight scratches left on the surface by the edge when sharpening belly part of the blade for example. Also they have kind of unsual smell which reminded me on something but couldn't remember. The 1000 is very effective sharpening tool. It is rather easy (in comparison to usual stones, not to mention ceramics) to sharpen a blade quickly and with no trouble so there is no light reflection visible around/on the edge. Amazing. But on the other hand, the 3000 grit gave me trouble when I tried to achieve polished edge on Mora 2000. When I finished on 1000 grit the knife could shave, when I moved to 3000 it got duller so it couldn't shave. With ceramic stones it's rather easy to get hair popping edge. I guess every type of stone has its advantage.

Btw the ceramic truing block is 60 grit (I guess that's why it was cheap). Is this too rough grit for truing 1000 or 3000 waterstone?
 
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