Which common knife steels CANNOT get "scary" sharp?

Kaizen1 said:
I had a Benchmade 710D2 that I got in a trade from CL01. He sharpened it before I got it and it had a very polished edge. After stropping it on newspaper, I was able to split a hair in 3, shave without touching the skin, split hair without touching the skin and pushcut newspaper. CL01 has some great sharpening skills.

I just received an Emerson that I've been anxiously waiting for with 154cm (I believe) and it was able to do all of the above, so I definitely agree with you on that one.
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stroping on newspaper how do u do that?
 
Vanadium makes things easier to sharpen. It tends to make the carbides smaller. The alloying element that causes problems is Molybdenum. That is one of the reasons that 154CM is a hassle.
 
If you can make D2 seem sharper by stropping it on newspaper you are simply lining up a burr. The carbides in D2 are much too hard to move around by stropping on paper. You would at least need some real grit to do any honing. Aluminum oxide or silicon carbide might work, but I generally use diamond grit for this purpose.
 
Steel itself makes a difference, but geometry makes much more of a difference. I had a real bitch of a time sharpening the D2 steel on my Benchmade 41MC and 42-400 balisongs, so I thought D2 was just too damn difficult to sharpen, particularily to a fine edge. Of course, D2 is more difficult to sharpen to a fine edge (D2 has HUGE carbides), but that doesn't mean it can't be done. My EDC for a few months now (almost every single day with few exceptions) has been a Benchmade 910D2CF, and my opinion on D2 has definitely changed. I have no problem whatsoever getting a hair-popping sharp edge on my 910D2CF. The reason, I'm sure, is that it's a thinner blade with a thinner profile and a thinner edge bevel.

The absolute worst time I had sharpening a knife edge was on a S&W POS in 440C. I could get it sharp using coarse diamond stones, but as soon as I tried to get a finer edge with ceramic, the sharpness was gone. An absolutely horrible knife. And there's nothing wrong with 440C; I've used several BMs in 440C and got those plenty sharp. S&W knives though, regardless of steel, are just plain crap. The possible exceptions would be the Darrell Ralph designed S&Ws, because these are at least designed properly (I've handled a S&W where the blade contacted the handle stand-offs--on every knife of that model that the store had), but the heat treatment on their 440C steel is terrible and ruins an otherwise potentially nice knife. That's what happens when you lend your name to a low-quality Chinese manufacturer (Taylor Cutlery, which also now makes "Shrade" labled knives).

The one premium steel I've had the easist time getting a scary-sharp edge on was Spyderco's VG-10. I love the natural bite that VG-10 has. I also had an easy time getting a nicely polished edge on the A2 on Severtechs. Everything else (ATS-34, 154CM, S30V) is about the same for me difficulty-wise--not really easy, but not particularily difficult, although the M2 on my BM710HS was a bit tricky, mostly due to the high-hardness--material removal is time consuming, but once the edge is there, it's easy to keep scalpel sharp.
 
Jeff Clark said:
Vanadium makes things easier to sharpen. It tends to make the carbides smaller. The alloying element that causes problems is Molybdenum. That is one of the reasons that 154CM is a hassle.
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Thanks, Jeff. What you say about vanadium makes sense compared to like D2 which forms very large carbides. I've also never been clear on just what the overall effect of molybdenum is in steel alloy. I always read things like increases strength, hardness and red hardness, but can see how this could make for sharpening problems. At 4% Mo 154CM looks like the King of Molybdenum, so this makes sense also.
 
14-4CrMo also has 4% Molybdenum (as you might guess), but it's not a terribly common steel (Microtech used it a lot, but that's the only company I'm aware of that used it), and even though I have a knife in this steel (MT Tachyon), I've never had to sharpen it (I don't cut things--other than myself--with my Tachyon). I have heard that 14-4CrMo is very similar in performance (and alloy composition) to ATS-34/154CM. ATS-34 has the same 4% Chromium. M2 has even more Molybdenum, 4.75-6.5% according to Spyderco's steel chart, which probably explains why it took me so long to sharpen my 710HS.
 
well, it is an M steel, and the M stands for moly :) I think all the carbide formers control grain size when in carbide and increase hardenability when dissolved, plus slow softening at increased temperatures. Been paging through Functions of the Alloying Elements in Steel by Bain.
 
Kaizen1 said:
...This isn't a shot at Confederate, because from his explanation, he can get the rest of his knives very sharp, so I would think it is the steel in that instance (I agree with his comment on out of the box sharpness for CS knives).
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Well, the only chisel grind knives I have are CRKTs, and I keep reading how they're the easiest to sharpen. But when I do Google searches, I find that the people who are unhappiest with chisel grind knives are CRKT owners. I just don't see any Emerson or Spyderco owners complaining about CG configurations.

Now I can get my M21-01 (spear point, plain edge, double grind) bleedin' sharp. But I've got a Desert Cruiser and an M16-14SFA (both serrated/plain, chisel grind), and I can get them sharp enough I reckon, but I can't get either of them "scary sharp." I'm very careful with knives since...oh...when I was 13 and used a Boy Scout knife to give my thumb a facelift. Blood everywhere. I can still smell the bandage I had to wear for weeks. But I've come close to getting some papercut-type knicks with some knives after sharpening, especially before knocking off the small burrs that forms along the edges.

I've never needed to bolt a knife in and use a pre-set angle to sharpen a V-grind and I love Spyderco's Sharpmaker. I seem to do just as well when the rods are round, though.

And regarding carbon steel, I've never had a problem with Carbon V blades, but have never tried sharpening D2 or Cold Steel's new carbon steel.
 
In stainless steel, anything 420 and above will take a great edge. Personally, I'm not wild about stainless steel. I prefer high carbon blades such as Carbon V, and 1055, because they take an unbelievable edge, even though they do need to be sharpened more often, and take a bit more care. If I have to go stainless, I prefer VG, because it seems to sharpen a bit easier than the other steels.
 
Depends on sharpening technique. You can sharpen a piece of mild steel so that it will shave, but whether or not it will hold that edge is dependent on geometry, material and heat treat.
 
I sharpen with diamond hones and finish/polish the bevel on a paper wheel. All my knives get very sharp.
The harder more wear-resistant steels stay that way longer.
Carbon steels are faster/easier to do, but can rust, and rust ruins edges.
Greg
 
I'm certainly not an expert, but since going to a belt sander, I haven't found any good cutlery steel that can't get scary sharp.

Even on the old Sharpmaker. I could get a scary sharp edge on D-2, and S30V, It just took more time and energy. In my experience, the higher quality of the steel, the more work required to get it scary sharp.

I think the problem the OP referred to comes when someone takes a damaged S30V, D-2, or other high quality blade, and wonders why he can't restore the edge in 2 minutes like he used to do on his old Gerber or Buck.
 
I can't imagine being scared of sharpness. Nevertheless, how acute a bevel angle a steel blade will take is not the same thing as defining how acute an angle it can maintain without failing for its designed application. In simpler terms, harder steel or steel with more abrasion resistance will allow you to put a more acute bevel angle without the edge failing in use. So the answer to your question is all steels are the same. The answer to the more appropriate question is there is an appropriate angle for each steel and application.
 
I can get M2 sharper than any other steel I have...go figure. I have the most issues with ATS-34
 
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