which folding knife locks will fail? when stabbing forces are applied....

Reeek said:
I wouldn't feel confident stabbing a car door with any folder but if I had to bet my hand or fingers I'd stick with the Triad in a heartbeat
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I remeber reading a thread on the Spyderco.com gen. forums about a guy that used a Manix 2 to put holes in a car door. He had to fix the tip but the bbl

lock took the abuse. :eek::D
 
short answer is all of them are going to fail with a certain amount of force is applied. If you are even considering doing a task that may or may not compromise your tool, you're using the wrong tool. Get a fixed blade so you don't have to worry about it.
 
For a real hard use folder I much prefer to have a nice big flipper or choil that will hit my finger if the lock fails, the ZT0200 being a prime example.

Right now I would have to say that the Tri Ad lock is theoretically the least likely to give out, the geometry on that thing is very good, and it's got a lot of material in it too (should have high static load strength). The Compression lock is the only other lock with a near perfect track record, but it's usually not made to take extreme stress, just the regular "way beyond what any knife will realistically see in every day cutting" stress.

The Ball Lock, Axis Lock, Stud Lock, and Ti Lock all work on nearly the same principle, and I would put them just below the two previously mentioned locks.
The Reeve Integral Lock and Walker Liner lock and Back locks go somewhere below those.

Of course, if it weren't for Hollywood we would all be carrying heavy duty butterfly knives, but noOOOoo, they're only for "gangsters" and other unwanted segments of society...:mad:
 
Joshua J. said:
For a real hard use folder I much prefer to have a nice big flipper or choil that will hit my finger if the lock fails, the ZT0200 being a prime example...
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If its gotta be a folder, would have to agree with that. Definitely feel more comfortable applying considerable force with such a natural stop for lock failure inherently designed into the knife.
 
I always feel more confident with a tri ad lock not failing and also just like Joshua J mentioned folders with the flipper or choil also helps in case of lock failure the flipper will hit your finger instead of the blade.

I usually tighten up all of the torx screws to avoid a mal function,and sometimes I do the tree stabbing test to make sure my folders locks wont fail.
 
CalBearTactical said:
I always feel more confident with a tri ad lock not failing and also just like Joshua J mentioned folders with the flipper or choil also helps in case of lock failure the flipper will hit your finger instead of the blade.

I usually tighten up all of the torx screws to avoid a mal function,and sometimes I do the tree stabbing test to make sure my folders locks wont fail.
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What happens if your test damages the knife just enough to make it fail the next time you strain it?
 
I'd say a slipjoint is least likely to fail. Mostly because you won't be doing mall ninja stabbings or spine whacks with it in the first place.
 
I always wonder this when I see dagger blades in folders and automatics. The blade is built for stabbing but is the knife itself? And at worst, is it irresponsible to sell a folder with a piercing blade if the design cannot bear that kind of force? Obviously the onus is on the user to be reasonable, but surely there is some measure of responsibility placed on the shoulders of the designer. And yes, there will always be someone foolish enough to stab a cinder block.

I don't ever plan on stabbing someone with a folder (or any knife) in my lifetime, but as an enthusiast it's something that interests and behooves me to be informed about. I have the feeling that getting any kind of real answer about this would require a lot of money and a lot of testing. In the end, doing anything with anything is going to be a calculated risk, like asking "will I get HIV if I wear a condom." Most likely not, but stuff happens.
 
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If I absolutely had to stab something pretty solid and put my fingers at risk it would only be with the SR-1 by Lionsteel because of the rotoblock. Second to that would be my XM-18 Hinderer firstly because of the faith I have in Hinderer's frame lock and secondly because I've got the flipper and like others have said, at least if the lock does fail, my fingers probably wont be damaged aside from maybe some bruises on the index finger from being pinched.
 
singularity35 said:
What happens if your test damages the knife just enough to make it fail the next time you strain it?
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the tree stabbing test doesn't damage the knife,it only makes the tip less sharp....and I think human skin is much softer than a tree and would easily be punctured with out lock failure,but I have found out that repeated stabbing in the tree stabbing test will loosen the pivot screw or torx screw.
 
No mention of the Kershaw/Ken Onion studlock? Its' easily my favorite folding knife lock and seems rock solid to me in my use...(not abuse).
 
CalBearTactical said:
the tree stabbing test doesn't damage the knife,it only makes the tip less sharp....and I think human skin is much softer than a tree and would easily be punctured with out lock failure,but I have found out that repeated stabbing in the tree stabbing test will loosen the pivot screw or torx screw.
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So the tree stabbing test, the way you do it, doesn't really tell you anything about the lock, does it? Human skin sure is softer than a tree but I guess bone might be harder or just as hard. Also, an SD situation is an extremely fluid one. Impacts might hit the blade from widely different directions and angles. If you just slightly dull the tip with your tests, it's probably not duplicating an SD scenario.
 
CalBearTactical said:
well,actually the tree stabbing test shows that the particualar knife I'm testing wont close when I'm piercing with it.
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Not really, if all you're doing is stabbing without stressing the lock, then that's not an indication of how the lock will perform. You might as well just take it on faith. :p

It's actually a catch-22. To see how a lock performs, you need to stress it. When you stress it, it may damage it enough for it to fail the next time it's stressed. So no, you're tree stabbing doesn't really indicate anything.
 
If i were going to try stabbing through a car door or hood with a folder, i'd probably grab my Cold Steel Spartan first, it seems to me like the thick beefy Tri Ad lock could handle it. Is the Tri Ad lock stronger than a "fixed blade"? i guess that would depend on the "fixed blade" your comparing it with. Just because a blade is fixed, wont necessarily mean it's stronger than a good quality folder, i.e. Benchmade, Emerson, Strider and "many others" (imo). Blades can snap too, others may agree that many a fixed blade can and have snapped. But is snapping blade syndrome really even a factor, i'd rather take my chances with a fixed blade snaping than an i dont care who or what made it a folder slicing off my fingers.
The Tri Ad lock on the Spartan is pretty thick. Here it is along side a Glock field knife.
IMAG0530.jpg

IMAG0538.jpg
 
Back to the OP question about forces that the lock mechanism see from stabbing ( straight/angle) a tree. IF the force(s) exceed the strength of the lock,then the lock would start to buckle or fail. The best way, in my humble opinion, is to design a locking mechanism that is not in the load path of the force being applied. A lock back in this case would be stroger design for application of stabbing straight, since the force is going thru the entire length of the lock and the lock bar is in compression.

I have Benchmade Mel Pardue Axis Lock. During stabbing, the load path goes directly between the the pin hard stop and the pivot, the axle do not see any load. So, if this knife fails, it would fails on the pin hard stop first than the would collapse and start putting a load on the axle lock. I can calculate how much that pin stop can take, but judging from the material and the size, it would probably take a couple of hundred pound to make it fails.

Now, for a "whack Test", the axle lock see a direct impact ( more like double sheer...), so the size and the material of this axle would determine how strong it is under torque ( whack test is applying force at certain distance from the pivot).

So moral of the story, choose your lock based on your application.

My 2 cents
 
The balisong is the strongest lock. It would require your hand or the blade to fail before the lock would
 
singularity35 said:
This seems about right depending on the how well made the particular example is.






This just doesn't make sense.
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Think about it. Your hand is keeping the handles in the closed position. If the handles themselves make up the lock, then a failure of the lock would require the user to break his grip.
Barring that, the blade would break before the lock.
 
frenchmade said:
Think about it. Your hand is keeping the handles in the closed position. If the handles themselves make up the lock, then a failure of the lock would require the user to break his grip.
Barring that, the blade would break before the lock.
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Well, for one thing, the pivot can break. Not likely but if we're talking about possibilities which you ruled out entirely.
 
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