Which is better for batoning? Scandi or Flat?

[parbajtor]

I have Rosilli, Enzo, Hell, and Mora blades are all zero grinds
Is it possible that their tradition of grinding predates the 'Scandi Forum' opinion?

Traditionally scandi's were ground on very large diameter stone wheels and pretty much all left the "factories" as slightly hollow ground.
Over time and use, sharpening on stones these would end up zero bevel.
Belt grinders changed all that.
Then again, does a scandi stop being a scandi simply because you've sharpened & stropped the edge a few times in the field? Or because you put a microbevel on it to better suit the type of use the knife gets?
Please also note that those are all "production" blades and certain "compromises" may have been made to increase efficiency of production.

 

[Daniel Koster]

You can get large wheels for belt grinders...and most modern double-hollow grind machines are set up with large wheels in the first place...and are still in use today.

Many american factories that produce flat-ground knives use small diameter stone wheels to make the grinds...not belt grinders. Belt grinders are the custom-knifemaker's realm...though there are certainly factories that use them, modern computer-controlled grinding is done with stone wheels as they are more reliable/predictable/controllable.

I've also seen modern video footage as well as historic writing showing knives being ground on large wheels to make a flat grind (or saber, or scandi). You rock the blade back-n-forth as the stone grinds. It required a very skilled hand. Then they did final clean-up on a flat stone. This has been a traditional method in many countries all over the world, not just Scandinavia.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Dan, we dwell here in the realm often inhabited by magical thinking. Mere facts are often insufficient. however clearly set out.

I have one knife from the Nordic countries that came with a secondary bevel that was hard to see - and it was not a "Scandi Grind" but a full convex Fallkniven . All the others, even other Fallknivens, had secondary bevels easily seen with the nude eye - MORA, Helle, Issakki, Woods, Paaso, Roselli, Marttiini, Brusetto, Stromeng, Lapin, Ahti, Lahdensuo, YP, Raatiniemi, Silla, Luomanen, Kivimaki, Bergen, Vikstrom, SANDVIK (the brand, not the steel), and two by the self-same mod (saber/concave with secondary bevel). Some of the makers being decades dead, there can hardly be a connection to any forum.

 

[fmajor007]

I can't speak empirically about whether I think a Scandi or FFG will baton better, but my Scandi-grind Mora knife batons well. I agree with the comment which stated (loosely quoting) about preferring a high Saber grind, but that's not speaking specifically about the edge geometry.

When it comes to actual edge "strength" and quantifying the results within the parameter resulting directly from edge geometry, and all other "things" related (such as heat treatment and I don't know what all else), it seems to me that a Scandi grind should hold up just as well as a FFG. I think the greater factor is how "fine" an edge is as to whether it will be more subject to deformation. Obviously a surgical scalpel is more likely to experience edge deformation than an axe - all else being equal.

 

[Woods Walker]

Then again, does a scandi stop being a scandi simply because you've sharpened & stropped the edge a few times in the field? Or because you put a microbevel on it to better suit the type of use the knife gets?

I think it is still a scandi because that's how these things go in the real world. The second someone uses and sharpens a knife they being to modify it to their needs intentionally or not.

 

[Shotgun]

Just throwing this out there. Could it be that scandi edges last longer BECAUSE they tend to wedge the wood apart more? After the initial couple whacks the edge isn't contacting anything. It's just floating in air and the only wood that's touching the knife is on the shoulders of the bevel. On a FFG knife, especially a thin one, the edge contacts the wood longer as it doesn't have the same wedging action. My argument is that it has less to do with how strong one is or isn't and more to do with the fact that the FFG edge is just getting more use.

To answer your question specifically, I prefer scandis to baton with but use flat or convexed grinds because they perform better all around IME.