Which models are still made in the US?

[mbjannusch]

My .02 worth.

I believe that AfghanWarrior's use of the term "landfill" is a term he used to illustrate his dislike of anything produced in China and not that they're junk. The junk argument has been long discredited and if he still believes that:

I'm sure your right, but I thought I would post some pictures anyway. It's amazing how much stuff in produced off shore. Some things we don't even know about and we think we're buying American. Having things to pass down to the loved ones after we're gone is one of those things we all think of. I wouldn't want to leave something to my kids that they would have to research and study to be able to appreciate. Then again if it was good enough for me, my kids would love it, just because I loved it. I'm gone what do I care anyway...

 

[AfghanWarrior]

Last year I took all the made in China hand tools and knives that I had (two small USPS boxes) and mailed them to a relative getting divorced. I miss none of them and I have no real respect for them. I have zero desire to give them to my kids/grandkids.

It gave me a great excuse to upgrade knives and my hand tools.:thumbup:

 

[Plumberdv]

Last year I took all the made in China hand tools and knives that I had (two small USPS boxes) and mailed them to a relative getting divorced. I miss none of them and I have no real respect for them. I have zero desire to give them to my kids/grandkids.

It gave me a great excuse to upgrade knives and my hand tools.:thumbup:

Other than the fact that it gave you the excuse to upgrade, was there some life changing event that caused the sudden hatred of anything made in China? The fact that you had any at all to give away, means that at some point it must not have been an issue with you. What changed?

 

[AfghanWarrior]

Other than the fact that it gave you the excuse to upgrade, was there some life changing event that caused the sudden hatred of anything made in China? The fact that you had any at all to give away, means that at some point it must not have been an issue with you. What changed?

I think as I came home from my second combat tour and see my country becoming a third World nation. The USA has been taken by storm by cheap Chinese Wal-Mart goods. I have been to China, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, and others in Asia also. I like quality and China is not it. Eat China food if you want. My former boss has an adopted child from China with more mental issues (heavy metals in her system) than one should ever have. If you trust the Red Chinese go for it, but I will spend my money on quality. I will buy quality German/Swiss/Japanese/USA hand tools first. I have nothing made in China that I care about including my TV (I never watch anyways) or this computer that will be landfill soon.

 

[BG42EDGE]

I like quality and China is not it.

Now you're just talking silly.

If China didn't provide quality we wouldn't be HAPPILY buying 90 percent of the stuff we buy from them and we wouldn't owe them trillions of dollars.

You say America is becoming a third world nation? If so, it's because China does provide quality--in spades.

 

[Plumberdv]

It's funny how things change. My father in law was a decorated Marine who served and fought in several campaigns in the Pacific during WW2. After that war, most people felt the same way about goods from Japan as you do about Chinese made goods. My father in law wouldn't even consider buying or driving a Japanese car right up until his death in 2004. I can at least understand his point of view because he had actually been in combat against the Japanese and had many reasons to feel that way (none of which had anything to do with the quality issue).

Times and viewpoints change.

 

[mbjannusch]

The OP says he wants to buy quality, so he doesn't buy Chinese made goods. What difference is there in Chinese made goods and Japanese made goods? It sounds a bit hypocritical to me. The fact is that just about everything we buy has foreign made parts. Chevy and Ford both have parts made in Mexico. Buck provides sheaths for the new fixed blade knives, made in Mexico. Not everything made in China is poor quality. I provided pictures of outstanding quality Chinese made knives.

Look, I can understand not wanting to buy foreign made goods. We all want to support the American workers and companies. I served it the Marine Corp., for 4 years and 6 months. I got out of the Corp. and went into the US Army for another 4 years and after all that I did reserve time. I was a training instructor in the US Naval Sea Cadet Corp. (ROTC of the Navy). I am a patriot through and through. It's not the Chinese we need to worry about, it's the millions of of illegal immigrants that are coming into our country every year. Big business, all the way down to the home owner that employees landscapers to cut there grass, is the problem. My father in law came to this country and did the classes and learned the language and assimilated, so it can be done. Get rid of the illegals and employee Americans if we are worried about our country.

 

[RonnieC]

I have two adopted kids from China and they are very healthy and wonderful kids, so I think we can dispense with your single data point. And I've never really understood blaming the Chinese for the glut of Chinese products on the market. It's the American companies that are outsourcing to take advantage of cheap labor. The Chinese aren't forcing them to do this.

 

[AfghanWarrior]

Now you're just talking silly.

If China didn't provide quality we wouldn't be HAPPILY buying 90 percent of the stuff we buy from them and we wouldn't owe them trillions of dollars.

You say America is becoming a third world nation? If so, it's because China does provide quality--in spades.

The USA buys stuff from China, because it is cheap not because of quality. German knives, Swiss knives, Nepalese Kukui's knives, and USA knives etc., are quality. I bet if a Craftsman ratchet is made in China and another is made in the USA for the same price 99% would pick the USA one. Some buy the Craftsman China tools because they are cheap not because they are better quality:barf:. If you like China knives OK.

As my old econ 101 teacher once said "every dollar buys a vote." You can buy China Buck, but I will buy Idaho Buck.

 

[Plumberdv]

I'll say for sure that all USA made knives are not quality. I have recent Bear models made entirely in the USA that don't even come close to the quality of a Chinese made Buck. Made in the USA doesn't automatically make something quality.

Buck has some made in China because they can be both, less expensive and good quality.

A buyer may purchase something the first time because it's less expensive (made in China or elsewhere), but if it's junk, they won't buy it again.

If you have an issue with imported goods then don't buy them, but don't try to tell the world that the reason is because they are junk. It's just not true.

 

[AfghanWarrior]

I'll say for sure that all USA made knives are not quality. I have recent Bear models made entirely in the USA that don't even come close to the quality of a Chinese made Buck. Made in the USA doesn't automatically make something quality.

Buck has some made in China because they can be both, less expensive and good quality.

A buyer may purchase something the first time because it's less expensive (made in China or elsewhere), but if it's junk, they won't buy it again.

If you have an issue with imported goods then don't buy them, but don't try to tell the world that the reason is because they are junk. It's just not true.

I do not have problems with imported goods as I like quality. As I said before I own Japanese H1 steel knives, German steel, Swiss steel, and Nepalese hand made Kukri's etc. I just have not seen any China stuff that is above basement level goods. If they are such great quality Craftsman would stamp in huge letters "Made in CHINA" on them....but they do not. Sears wants to sell Craftsman prices, but pay cheap China labor and products. That's what Harbor Freight is for. Cheap China stuff. Tools sales have been going down at Sears as they are selling more and more cheap China Craftsman hand tools these days (per a Sears tool manager). Go to the Craftsman forum and see what the folks like about the cheap China stuff. They are buying other brands.

I have seen cheap China made magnesium not work at outdoor school. I have never seen a USGI American magnesium nor Swedish firesteel fail.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

I'll say for sure that all USA made knives are not quality. I have recent Bear models made entirely in the USA that don't even come close to the quality of a Chinese made Buck. Made in the USA doesn't automatically make something quality.

Buck has some made in China because they can be both, less expensive and good quality.

A buyer may purchase something the first time because it's less expensive (made in China or elsewhere), but if it's junk, they won't buy it again.

If you have an issue with imported goods then don't buy them, but don't try to tell the world that the reason is because they are junk. It's just not true.

I have that same thing.

I have a couple of Bear & Sons medium stockman patterns, made in USA. I can't get them to hold an edge for crap. I have a handful of Buck (Chinese) imports, and they all get sharp and stay sharp.

I have my share of crap pieces from China. None of them are Buck. By far the biggest percentage of crap-by-origin pieces I have are from Pakistan. Hands down. And yet, I actually have two Pakistani knives worth keeping. Who knew?

I find that -- where Chinese production is concerned -- the brand counts for more than the origin. For some reason, there are companies -- like Buck -- that actually run real QC over their products. And then there are others that for whatever reason don't seem to be able to muster that same level of consistent quality in their imports.

By default I have little confidence in Chinese imports. When the company involved makes the extra effort to ensure quality, the resulting product will stand alongside their US production without tarnishing the company name.

I look forward to the day Buck can see its way clear to bringing all the production home.

I don't need to hang a flag on it. Fact is, when your production facility is in a foreign country, there are variables you simply can't control. Making stuff on your own turf helps reduce the number of variables and improves your control.

It's not just Buck. I've had my own job offshored. It sucked mightily. Yeah, sure, two years later they realized it wasn't the panacea they'd been told it was, and they offered me my job back, but I wasn't living in that area any longer.

Yes, having them all made here would probably push the prices up a little. Those of us who already appreciate the Buck quality and who appreciate the value of home production would probably not mind too much. However, keep in mind that those of us here in this room aren't the growth market. The growth market is younger than most of us, new to knives, and looking for that bargain they know they should always get. Their first Buck may have to be price-pointed to get their attention, since every other Tom, Dick, and Harry on the rack and shelf beside them will be price-pointing to get that same market's attention.

If having some production done offshore can keep enough newbies coming to Buck, newbies who grow into the brand and learn to love the quality, I can live with that.

Without the newbies, Buck becomes Schrade.

I don't ever want that to happen.

 

[Badhammer]

Seems to me that sometimes a personal preference should just remain personal.

 

[CaseyChaos]

China can produce any quality they're asked to produce. They have equipment and technology that matches the quality of any of that in the states. As far as the human resource aspect, if someone is a 1 in a million person (intelligence, innovation, etc) there are a thousand of them in China! They can and do produce on a level with the US, when asked.

Now, they do put out a lot of junk, just like US manufacturers. But, they do it when the price and order dictates and that comes from the consumers. If they're asked to produce a high level of quality, you can bet your boots they'll knock it out of the park as well as, and sometimes better than, any manufacturer in the US can.

The China Bucks I have are excellent knives. I bought them for their design and practicality, regardless of where they were produced. They're great products.

 

[BG42EDGE]

China can produce any quality they're asked to produce. They have equipment and technology that matches the quality of any of that in the states.

Exactly.

Some U.S. companies work with China just to get huge profits.....and that means low standards and crappy product.

Far more U.S. companies work with China to get sustained repeat customers--and that means high standards and quality product. Our stores are flooded with it and we all buy it.

Some few, like Buck, actually have a superior reputation to protect.....thus they require the highest standards and the product produced by China is superior and always close to the best, if not the best, in the world.

America's problems are many and complex, but to try to blame China for America's woes is simply wrong......China is just there and trying to survive.......and doing a bit better at it than we are right now.

Fear and hate are negative emotions and just lead to more fear and hate.....and eventually, xenophobia, isolationism and pathological thinking.

Just say no to that slippery and dysfunctional slope.