Which one of these waterstones/whetstones?

S

soap

Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
10
Hi guys,

I've already searched the forum a bit and found some recommendations regarding waterstones but the reason I am posting a new thread is because I am not able to get in my hands any of the recommended ones.
So, I am about to buy my first waterstone(s) so I can properly sharpen my kitchen knives(I have only been using steel and diamond rods for some time) but I can’t really decide which one to buy.

My knives:
-Kai Wasabi chef’s knife(200mm), HRC=~58
-Cheap chef’s knives(20$)

Waterstones(available in my country):
-Taidea (interested in 240/1k(50$) and 3k/8k(50$) grit ones)
-Kai (300/1k(50-80$) and 1k/6k(140$))
-Tojiro (F432(50$) and F454(100S))
-Wusthof (3k/8k(80$))

I was about to buy the Taidea ones, which happen to be one of the “cheapest” options in here - around 50$ each – but then I read about these two not being real waterstones and that their real grit is much lower than the company says. Also some guys on amazon say that the 8k side is worse than the King 6k at polishing.
Then I found the Kai 1k/6k but it costs 140$(!) and I cant even find if it is a real waterstone and if it can be compared to the king 1k/6k.
Tojiro and Wusthof ones are a bit cheaper than the Kai – the higher grit ones cost ~80-100$ each – but I also don’t know if these too deserve that much money.

Also, I don’t want to buy one from another country because I ve read a few people complaining about cracked or even broken stones that they’ve received so I don’t want to take the risk.
Another thing to consider is that I am planning on upgrading to a Tojiro DP in a few months.
What would you suggest guys?

Thanks in advance
 
The KAI (Shun DM0600) 1K/6K is available a number of places for $80. Not recommending it, just clarifying the pricing.
 
There has to be more options than that, half of those are rebranded stones. I know the Tojiros are sourced through Naniwa but likely the economy grade Naniwa stones which I would not recommend.

I'm sure you could find some King stones at least? A King 1k and 6k or 800 and Naniwa 2k green brick. A leveling stone should be on your list too, the small ones with angle cut grooves work fine.

Do some searches for King, Naniwa, and Suehiro and see what you can find.
 
Hey guys thanks for responding.

As I said before what worries me the most is the possibility of the stone been damaged when I'll receive it.
Aside from that, I have found The King KW-65 (HT-65) Whetstone for ~70$(including shipping, etc) from the uk.
I live in Greece so I would prefer to order something from a country inside the EU mostly because of the shipping costs and possible custom charges.

You think I should take the risk(of receiving a damaged stone) and order the king stone rather than buying one of these I mentioned at first? Are they that bad :p

Regarding the leveling stone, I was thinking of doing this(when the time comes) using a corse sandpaper - placing the sandpaper on a flat and tough surface and then grinding the stone on it, after having these both submerged into water for sometime - as I have seen on some videos.
Is this a bad idea? Is a flattening stone a must?
 
It seems that you are not in the US.
I have a rebranded Taidea 400/1000 & it was quite good. The 1000 result is higher polish than DMT EF (1200). I'm sure the grit means differently, so you'd need to look up the stickies on this subforum. A friend bought the 5000 from Exduct.com & it arrived safely.

Are you set on waterstone? I'd look for other options such as diamond plate or the Washboard if shipping & damage is a concern.
Our Magnanimous showed sharpening a 10" chef knives on DMT credit card plate. His YouTube is ducha123fly.
Given the limitations in your country, shipping, etc. it might be good to explore options.
 
Additional note:
The diamond plate and washboard should work well for your knives, and when your sandpaper for washboard is used up, you can buy again from HeavyHanded, shipping should be cheaper in a simple envelope (if same type not available in Greece), or you can source locally (I do).

My sharpening setup actively used is: Taidea C (360)& F (600) folding sharpener, DMT diafold EF, EEF. Finished on EEF & strop on newspaper is good for my kitchen knives (Zyliss & Victorinox)
 
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soap said:
Hey guys thanks for responding.

As I said before what worries me the most is the possibility of the stone been damaged when I'll receive it.
Aside from that, I have found The King KW-65 (HT-65) Whetstone for ~70$(including shipping, etc) from the uk.
I live in Greece so I would prefer to order something from a country inside the EU mostly because of the shipping costs and possible custom charges.

You think I should take the risk(of receiving a damaged stone) and order the king stone rather than buying one of these I mentioned at first? Are they that bad :p

Regarding the leveling stone, I was thinking of doing this(when the time comes) using a corse sandpaper - placing the sandpaper on a flat and tough surface and then grinding the stone on it, after having these both submerged into water for sometime - as I have seen on some videos.
Is this a bad idea? Is a flattening stone a must?
Click to expand...

I did some looking and it seems that the Taidea stone are decent and should be a fine choice.

The sandpaper is a common method for keeping stones flat. Lapping plates are not a must but it does make things easier and eventually sandpaper will get annoying to use. I would always recommend to flatten the stones before use to ensure they are flat and to start with fresh exposed abrasive.
 
Hi soap,

I know that you specifically asked about waterstones, but have you
investigated what is available within your own country?
On the Greek island of Naxos, for instance, emery occurs in large blocks.
I am certain google will be able to tell you more about these quarries.
Hunting natural stones can become quite a nice side-hobby, irrespective
of which country you live in :-)
 
@Chris, I would prefer to begin with a water stone. Dont have a specific reason for that..I guess I just like them more :p - I 've also read that if you apply more force to a diamond plate you might "wear off" the diamonds and the plate will be useless. Is that true? I have a Smith's diamond rod for almost 2 years now and I can confirm that it does not really work anymore - probably because I applied too much pressure while I was sharpening my knives(?). Maybe I did something wrong..

@Jason, thanks for the advice.
I think I should stop using my rod once I sharpen my knives with the stones and instead, from time to time just to give my knives a few strokes on a stone with the fine to very fine grit. Lets say I will be doing this twice a month on 2-3 knives. You 'd still recommend flattening the stone everytime before I use it ?

@Claes, I didn't know about that. Maybe I should look if they are selling stones with different grits because from my quick research I found that they mostly send emery in large blocks(as u said) to other countries.

After Chris and Jason "approved" the Taidea stones I was about to order them but then I checked aesmith's link and now Im a bit confused :D

Regarding the link aesmith provided, would u guys suggest any of these stones instead of the Taidea ones i was about to order ?
I was actually looking at the NANIWA Super-Combination Stone grain size 800/5000 and the Imanishi BESTER Combination Stone, 1000/6000 grit.

Now that I'm able to choose between Naniwa, Shampton and Imanishi I think I'll skip the Taidea ones. What do u guys think ?

Thank you in advance
 
Yes, Shapton and Naniwa are much better stones

The Shapton Pro 1k, 2k, and 5k with a decent lapping plate would be a tough set of stones to beat. They are hard fast cutting ceramic stones that wear slowly and are splash-n-go for ease of use. Shapton stones are some of the best available waterstones pretty much the world over.
 
I haven't tried the brands Jason recommended, but I think they should be better than Taidea.

Reason being Chinese made for market that can't afford Naniwa, Shapton, etc.
 
mrdeus said:
I've bought all my stones within the EU from fine-tools.com (Germany) and knivesandtools.nl (The Netherlands) (had cheaper Naniwa stones back then). Fine-tools package the stones very well.
Click to expand...

Jason B. said:
The Shapton Pro 1k, 2k, and 5k with a decent lapping plate would be a tough set of stones to beat. They are hard fast cutting ceramic stones that wear slowly and are splash-n-go for ease of use. Shapton stones are some of the best available waterstones pretty much the world over.
Click to expand...

Very true. I use the Shapton Pro (the Ha-No-Kuromakus are the same) 1k, 2k and 5k. I get great results on carbon steels, some at hight hardness, and on some tool steels like O1 and A2. Even for the wear resistant 3V it works well. They are expensive but they worth it. For lapping i use the Atoma 400. Some would advice the 140 but if you take care to flatten your stones before or after each use it's done quickly and gives a smooth surface. Expensive as well. I've had to sell some knives to buy all that, no regrets, when you experience those tools you know that better are few knives with exceptional edges than many knives with ... you get the idea.

No chance to get the stones broken in the packages made by Fine-Tools. They do take care.

Good luck.

dantzk.
 
Is the Shapton pro 1000 a good starting point even for a dull knive? (Just checked my knives sharpness..I can move the blade back and forth on my skin many times and it will cut nothing - even if I apply some pressure - but I can still cut vegetables with some effort :P. Also, It can hardly cut through a piece of paper(A4 80gr).

Will the shapton pro 1000 do the same job as the 320 but it will just take much longer to do it ?

Also, because I'm on a tight budget, IF the shapton 1000 is good to start sharpening such a dull knife, will just the 1000 and the 5000 stone do the job for now or it is absolutely necessary to have a "middle" stone ?
 
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The Shapton 1k does cut steel, it's known to be a coarse 1k. It will do the job of the 320 in a longer time. It's doable. When it happens i have to fix some chipped or really dull edges i use in a first time the Atoma 400 i use for lapping. It happens rarely but i plan to buy a 120 or a 220. The reason being that less time it takes to me to set a bevel more even is the angle and i find ceramic stones more "comfortable" than the diamond plates.
If i had to choose i would in a first time buy the 1k. It's really a very good stone.

The 2k stone gives a good toothyness to the edge and i would begin with the 1k and the 2k but if for some reason (sharpening a wood carving knife for instance) you do need the 5k go for the 5k but you will have to spend more time to hone the edge. But there again it's doable. More stones you use less time you waste.

dantzk.
 
If it's a matter of time then I will temporarily go for the 1000 and the 5000. And in a month or two I will also get a 2000 plus the diamond plate.
I will be sharpening my kitchen knives only and not any tools. I would like to have a close to razor sharp edge because sometimes I need it for vegetable prep.
 
Atoma 400, Shapton Pro 1000, Shapton Pro 5000

The Atoma doubles as a lapping plate and coarse stone. This is the only 400 grit diamond plate I know of that will also lap waterstones.

As been said, the 1k is fast and will chew through a dull edge quickly. It's formulated for stainless steels but works equally well on carbon and stainless IMO. This stone will be used the most for general maintenance, you should find it to be more than coarse and fast enough for 90% of sharpening needs.

I like a little toothier of an edge so I like the 2k more than the 5k for most finishing needs but using the 1k and 5k allows you to give the 1k edge a little refinement or a lot of refinement depending on how much time you spend on the 5k.

The Shapton Pro 5k is one of those stone that simply produce an awesome edge. It's not only very sharp but still a bit toothy which makes for and edge that's scary to the touch. The 5k is also very good at leaving the edge very clean and burr free, it's rare I need to follow this edge with a strop.
 
Yesterday I received the Shapton stones(1k & 5k). Very good first impressions. Looks like my new hobby :D
Took me a few minutes to sharpen the blades to the point of shaving arm hair :D

In the next days I will order the Atoma 400 as a lapping plate but I would also like to get a finer stone.

I 've heard some people using medium to "fine" Shaptons at the beginning and then use softer stones(like the Naniwas) to polish the edge.

So what would you suggest:

Option A: Naniwa SS Stone 8k or 10k
Option B: Shapton Pro 8k or 12k

Also, will the Atoma 400 be appropriate for lapping the finer(8k+) stone?
 
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