Im new to this site so forgive me if im posting this in the wrong area. I just started to invest in nicer, more expensive knives. As such, i also started looking at sharpening surfaces and have discovered that there are many different kinds: natural stones, diamond composites, ceramic substances ect... In addition, there are "coarse" and "fine" stones. I would love some feedback on what sharpening stones are best. In other words, i would rather not invest a boat load of cash into 20 different products. (also where is the best place to purchase such products). Any and all advice would be greatly appriciated. Thanks.
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Which Sharpening Surface is Best???
- Thread starter Tenn2577
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 23, 1999
- Messages
- 3,831
Welcome to the forums!!!! This is a fine spot to ask that question.
With the use of super alloy steels these days (S90V, S60V, BG-42, CMP-3V, etc.) I think diamond and ceramic hones are becomming more popular. If you want bench stones for freehanding, I would recommend DMT diamond hones for coarse removal of steel and Spyderco ceramic stones for final honing of the edge.
www.dmtsharp.com This should take you to DMT so you can read about their stuff.
www.spyderco.com This should take you to Spyderco's website.
If you want a gizmo systm, there are a lot of optiosn available to you. The two most popular around here (from what I hear) are the Spyderco Sharpmaker (ceramic stones) and Edge Pro models (waterstones). Both types of gear are quite different and have their strengths and weaknesses. If I were you, I'd hit the search button on the top left of your screen, and type in sharpen, sharpening stones, or something like that. You'll get tons of info to help you out. Also, on the General forum, there is a current thread about sharpenign systems. You'll get a lot of current info there, even more from me on belt grinders!
Good luck in your search.
Edited to fix links. Spyderco doesn't seem to work, but it is the correct URL.
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"Come What May..."
[This message has been edited by Crayola (edited 06-28-2001).]
With the use of super alloy steels these days (S90V, S60V, BG-42, CMP-3V, etc.) I think diamond and ceramic hones are becomming more popular. If you want bench stones for freehanding, I would recommend DMT diamond hones for coarse removal of steel and Spyderco ceramic stones for final honing of the edge.
www.dmtsharp.com This should take you to DMT so you can read about their stuff.
www.spyderco.com This should take you to Spyderco's website.
If you want a gizmo systm, there are a lot of optiosn available to you. The two most popular around here (from what I hear) are the Spyderco Sharpmaker (ceramic stones) and Edge Pro models (waterstones). Both types of gear are quite different and have their strengths and weaknesses. If I were you, I'd hit the search button on the top left of your screen, and type in sharpen, sharpening stones, or something like that. You'll get tons of info to help you out. Also, on the General forum, there is a current thread about sharpenign systems. You'll get a lot of current info there, even more from me on belt grinders!
Good luck in your search.
Edited to fix links. Spyderco doesn't seem to work, but it is the correct URL.
------------------
"Come What May..."
[This message has been edited by Crayola (edited 06-28-2001).]
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,981
Welcome to the forums, Tenn2577. Always great to see a new "face."
If you go to the home section of BF (Blade Forums) you will find the FAQs. There is a great sharpeing FAQ by Joe Talmadge.
Also, I believe the general forum, at the top of the list where this forum is found should yield several threads on sharpening. You'll find even more, I'm sure, in Archive 4, or the older archives. Spark just archived that forum on 4/17/01, if I remember correctly.
An awful lot of people here use the Spyderco 204 sharpening system. It comes with a video which is highly praised for learning. The video features Sal Glesser, the owner of Spyderco. The 204 system is two ceramic rods which fit into one of two sets of holes. The two sets provide different angles for sharpening. Basically, all one must do is to hold the blade vertical while "slicing" down the flat edge of the rods. Serrations can be done on the corners, as can blades with a recurve -- which are very difficult to sharpen on a flat stone.
If you can hold a knife at a consistent angle, then you could certainly use stones. Some of the "pros" recommend the Norton Fine India stone. They don't think much of the medium or fines. There are stones made from tungsten carbides, and there are diamond stones. And, of course, the old standbies, the Arkansas stones. There are hard Arkansas, medium Arkansas, and Wa****a.
There are other systems on the market where the blade is gripped by clips, and using rods with stones on the end, and the other end in one of several different holes, the stones can be moved across the edge of the blade at a very precise angle. Probably the Lansky is the best known, followed by the Gatco. There is a very expensive system of this sort, but I fear I can't recall it's name.
People swear by all of these systems. Hopefully Joe's FAQ can help you decide which might be best for you.
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Asi es la vida
Bugs
If you go to the home section of BF (Blade Forums) you will find the FAQs. There is a great sharpeing FAQ by Joe Talmadge.
Also, I believe the general forum, at the top of the list where this forum is found should yield several threads on sharpening. You'll find even more, I'm sure, in Archive 4, or the older archives. Spark just archived that forum on 4/17/01, if I remember correctly.
An awful lot of people here use the Spyderco 204 sharpening system. It comes with a video which is highly praised for learning. The video features Sal Glesser, the owner of Spyderco. The 204 system is two ceramic rods which fit into one of two sets of holes. The two sets provide different angles for sharpening. Basically, all one must do is to hold the blade vertical while "slicing" down the flat edge of the rods. Serrations can be done on the corners, as can blades with a recurve -- which are very difficult to sharpen on a flat stone.
If you can hold a knife at a consistent angle, then you could certainly use stones. Some of the "pros" recommend the Norton Fine India stone. They don't think much of the medium or fines. There are stones made from tungsten carbides, and there are diamond stones. And, of course, the old standbies, the Arkansas stones. There are hard Arkansas, medium Arkansas, and Wa****a.
There are other systems on the market where the blade is gripped by clips, and using rods with stones on the end, and the other end in one of several different holes, the stones can be moved across the edge of the blade at a very precise angle. Probably the Lansky is the best known, followed by the Gatco. There is a very expensive system of this sort, but I fear I can't recall it's name.
People swear by all of these systems. Hopefully Joe's FAQ can help you decide which might be best for you.
------------------
Asi es la vida
Bugs
Hey Guys,
Thanks so much for your valuable imput. I believe the best way to learn is indeed from those with more experience than yourself. Any recomendations on a portable sharpener to take into the field? Also,on SHARPENING TECHNIQUES (with a free stone): I have always sharpened my knives "edge-last" so to speak. I draw the knife across the stone with the backside leading (and have been pleased with the results). But...everything a read tells me to sharpen the knife "edge-first" as if shaving off a thin slice of the stone. (and some say a circular pattern is best). Is my way damaging the knife? ANy thoughts?
Thanks Alot
Thanks so much for your valuable imput. I believe the best way to learn is indeed from those with more experience than yourself. Any recomendations on a portable sharpener to take into the field? Also,on SHARPENING TECHNIQUES (with a free stone): I have always sharpened my knives "edge-last" so to speak. I draw the knife across the stone with the backside leading (and have been pleased with the results). But...everything a read tells me to sharpen the knife "edge-first" as if shaving off a thin slice of the stone. (and some say a circular pattern is best). Is my way damaging the knife? ANy thoughts?
Thanks Alot
- Joined
- Nov 27, 1999
- Messages
- 3,745
Welcome to the forum. I use a medium diamond on new stucc to get started. I go to a fine diamond after that. To be honest, I only use the medium once in the knife's life unless I abuse it. I use the fine about once a year. After the fine I go to a 1000 grit water stone and then I strop it using a board with a leather strap glued on and polishing compound.
Please read the FAQ. The ideas and tricks are great. I'm just set in my ways.
Please read the FAQ. The ideas and tricks are great. I'm just set in my ways.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 1999
- Messages
- 4,981
The way you move the knife across the stone is not that big of a deal as long as you can remain a constant angle and pressure along the entire cutting edge.
Different people do things different ways, if your comfortable sharpening with the edge trailing instead of leading then do it that way. I've tried all the different ways and settled into using different techniques on different blades and different sharpening conditions. If a knife is really dull, has a chipped or damaged edge, or needs the edge bevels reprofiled I work in a circular motion on one side until I have created a burr along the full length of the blade. Then I flip it over and do the same thing to the other side and keep repeating it until the bevels are the way I want them.The circular pattern works good for this because you can utilize the whole surface of the stone and its faster because your constantly removing material. Instead of making a pass picking the edge up and making another pass.
If the edge is in pretty good shape but needs touched up, I use the push method. It seems to be the easiest way to maintain the right angle and to remove an even amount of material along the whole length of the edge, rather than just getting some spots sharp and not really getting to others.
The only time I trail the edge of the knife is when I'm using a strop. I don't know why, it just seems like the other ways work better for me. If dragging the edge works for you than go for it. Thats how most people sharpen knives with a convex grind and it works great on them.
For stones, you at least need a medium and a fine grit of some type to start out. The medium stone will remove material faster, but will not get the knife as sharp because the scratch or cut pattern of the stone particles is pretty big. A fine stone has a finer cutting pattern and can be used to polish the edge down more.
I'm a fan of arkansas stones for the main part of the process and ceramic stones for the final polishing. Diamond stones cut quickly but even the fine stones don't seem to leave a very smooth edge, the way the diamonds are sprayed onto a backing makes them sort of leave micro serrations behind. I do use diamond files on serrations. Water stones work well but a re a major pain in the ass. They have to be stored in water al the time, or re wetted with distilled water every time to prevent mineral buildup inside the pores of the stone.They wear much more quickly than oil stones and have to be flattened pretty frequently if you give them much use. Ceramic stones last pretty much forever and don't require a lubricant like water or oil, but don't cut very quickly,and get overloaded with steel filings which means they have to be cleaned before they'll work right. I only use them for the final polishing of the edge because then I don't have to clean them very often.
I would recommend getting a soft arkansas stone(medium grit),hard arkansas stone(fine grit)and a fine or ultra fine cermaic stone form spyderco ( this will put a mirror polish on the edge).
Hope that helps some.
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I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer... but I've got the sharpest knife in the room.
Different people do things different ways, if your comfortable sharpening with the edge trailing instead of leading then do it that way. I've tried all the different ways and settled into using different techniques on different blades and different sharpening conditions. If a knife is really dull, has a chipped or damaged edge, or needs the edge bevels reprofiled I work in a circular motion on one side until I have created a burr along the full length of the blade. Then I flip it over and do the same thing to the other side and keep repeating it until the bevels are the way I want them.The circular pattern works good for this because you can utilize the whole surface of the stone and its faster because your constantly removing material. Instead of making a pass picking the edge up and making another pass.
If the edge is in pretty good shape but needs touched up, I use the push method. It seems to be the easiest way to maintain the right angle and to remove an even amount of material along the whole length of the edge, rather than just getting some spots sharp and not really getting to others.
The only time I trail the edge of the knife is when I'm using a strop. I don't know why, it just seems like the other ways work better for me. If dragging the edge works for you than go for it. Thats how most people sharpen knives with a convex grind and it works great on them.
For stones, you at least need a medium and a fine grit of some type to start out. The medium stone will remove material faster, but will not get the knife as sharp because the scratch or cut pattern of the stone particles is pretty big. A fine stone has a finer cutting pattern and can be used to polish the edge down more.
I'm a fan of arkansas stones for the main part of the process and ceramic stones for the final polishing. Diamond stones cut quickly but even the fine stones don't seem to leave a very smooth edge, the way the diamonds are sprayed onto a backing makes them sort of leave micro serrations behind. I do use diamond files on serrations. Water stones work well but a re a major pain in the ass. They have to be stored in water al the time, or re wetted with distilled water every time to prevent mineral buildup inside the pores of the stone.They wear much more quickly than oil stones and have to be flattened pretty frequently if you give them much use. Ceramic stones last pretty much forever and don't require a lubricant like water or oil, but don't cut very quickly,and get overloaded with steel filings which means they have to be cleaned before they'll work right. I only use them for the final polishing of the edge because then I don't have to clean them very often.
I would recommend getting a soft arkansas stone(medium grit),hard arkansas stone(fine grit)and a fine or ultra fine cermaic stone form spyderco ( this will put a mirror polish on the edge).
Hope that helps some.
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I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer... but I've got the sharpest knife in the room.
I think that there is some difference with moving the knife edge first or edge last. Don't know if it makes much difference with the super hard blades, but it does with most carbon steel knives.
The problem is the ductility of the steel. This is its ability to "flow" under pressure. If you go edge last, the steel has a tendency to hang on to the edge. This will produce a burr quickly, which is what you want for the starting stages of sharpening, but not desirable as you finish off. The burr will just flip from side to side as you change sides during sharpening. If you balance the flipping very nicely, you get a scary edge that goes blunt very quickly. This is a "wire edge" and is actually formed by that burr. (it's actually a pretty cool edge to slice paper and shave a few hairs, but won't last.)
So after you have established the initial bevel, you should go edge first to finish off the sharpening.
The problem is the ductility of the steel. This is its ability to "flow" under pressure. If you go edge last, the steel has a tendency to hang on to the edge. This will produce a burr quickly, which is what you want for the starting stages of sharpening, but not desirable as you finish off. The burr will just flip from side to side as you change sides during sharpening. If you balance the flipping very nicely, you get a scary edge that goes blunt very quickly. This is a "wire edge" and is actually formed by that burr. (it's actually a pretty cool edge to slice paper and shave a few hairs, but won't last.)
So after you have established the initial bevel, you should go edge first to finish off the sharpening.