Which steel is better?

H

HKG36

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Oct 14, 2003
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What steel is better for making a knife?

5160 or 1095?

Would you consider $14 a fair price for a piece of 3/16"x1 1/2"x 18" 1095 steel?
 
Oh Boy, I will get the popcorn started, this could be a steel war. ;) Kind of like arguing which is better Ford or Chevy, but we all know Ford is better. :D

I like 1095, but I have never used 5160. 1095 is a simple carbon steel, but it is shallow hardening meaning you have to get it quenched quick. If you have been following the O1 thread, the nose of the TTT curve on 1095 is at 0.5 seconds as opposed to O1's 10 seconds. So you have 1/2 of a second to get the steel from critical to about 1100° degress to be able to get good results. On the other hand 1095 tolerate over heating and makes a very fine blade.

I will let the other guys that know more about 5160 and 1095 tell the rest.
 
5160 is a spring steel - better suited to larger blades requiring toughness.

It's hard to answer your question....need more details. What kind of knife? How thick? What kind of heat-treat? How much forging work? Intended task? ...and so on....


I would expect to pay about $5-6 for that size 1095
 
I would ask if you have experience doing your own heat treat on knives? If not, start with 5160, it is far more forgiving. It makes a good blade. 1095 makes a great blade when done right but Sean speaks true it's a tough steel to HT for someone not used to it. It is not a beginner's steel, IMO, and thus "better steel" is relative.
 
I would ask if you have experience doing your own heat treat on knives?
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Not as of yet. Ive read that one way to heat treat a knife is to heat it to cherry red until a magnet doesnt stick and dip it in oil.

Can this method be used with 1095 steel? Or is it better suited for 5160 steel?
 
Cherry red in the dark is very different than cherry red in sunlight. Forget color and use the magnet.

1095 is much more exacting than I'd recommend you try. Failure will be probable. Learn with an easier steel to reduce frustration. 5160 is a far better choice for a beginner.
 
Can I make it a little more confusing and ask about using 1080? Is it easier to heat treat? I just made my first blade with it and a file skates on it but I have a feeling there is a lot more to it than just that. Hope I'm not hijacking this too much...maybe 1080 would be a better choice than 1095 for the beginner like HKG and myself.

Ryan
 
1075/1080/1084 is what is called a "eutectoid" steel, meaning it has "just the right amount" of carbon. It also has enough manganese it facilitates hardening. It is an easier steel to HT than 1095.
 
FREE STEEL is the best :D


I thought 1084 was the only eutectoid steel. ? above and below were either hypo or hyper.

Oh , and the best steel is the noneucrakable type.
 
1075/1080/1084 is what is called a "eutectoid" steel, meaning it has "just the right amount" of carbon. It also has enough manganese it facilitates hardening. It is an easier steel to HT than 1095.
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Excellent. 1084 was my first choice but I was told that it was harder to find because it has been discontinued.

Is there a website I can find 1084 steel? Ive looked on several and it was not listed.

Oh , and the best steel is the noneucrakable type
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What steels are those?
 
Mark, depending on the source, the eutectoid numbers vary from 0.75% to 0.84%. I honestly don't know what the single exact number is. I looked it up awhile ago and verified the numbers range that much from different sources.
 
HKG36 said:
Excellent. 1084 was my first choice but I was told that it was harder to find because it has been discontinued.

Is there a website I can find 1084 steel? Ive looked on several and it was not listed.



What steels are those?
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I am fairly new and know nothing about metallurgy, but I think he meant non-you-crackable steel :D BTW, is 5160 or 1095 a good steel to use for stock removal as opposed to the O-1 I've been using??
 
5160 is a good first steel.It forgives you for not knowing how to HT properly.!075-1084 are good second steels (also excellent sword steels).1095 can get real hard,but it can be messed up if you are not up to doing a proper HT.
 
ANGRYMOB said:
BTW, is 5160 or 1095 a good steel to use for stock removal as opposed to the O-1 I've been using??
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Like some others mentioned, the 1095 will be trickier to HT. 5160 and O1 are both pretty easy to HT for a beginer, and both would be fine for stock removal. I'd go O1 if you mostly make smaller blades and 5160 if you mostly make bigger ones.
 
You can certainly stock remove flat bar 1095 or whatever other steel you get in bar form. However, be aware that most carbon steel bar is mill rolled and not always annealed. So when you try to grind and drill the bars, you will end up eating up more belts and drill bits than necessary. You should either ask for annealed bars (and I generally still don't trust them) or have them sent out to be annealed. This is quite cheap but can be a hassle.

Most modern mill steel is of decent quality and you can stock remove quite comfortably to make a decent knife.

1095 vs. 5160. I just learnt to HT 1095 the right way. If you must stock remove and want a high carbon steel, try O1. It is available in precision ground stock which is expensive, but the flatness gives you good reference to make stopck removal knives. O1 is more forgiving in heat treat than 1095. Jason.
 
Thanks, Jason, I must for now stock remove as I live in a residential neighborhood and work nights so on my off days I do my knifemaking(I use that term loosely) during the night when I am off, so my neighbors would probably organize a lynch mob :mad: after a few nights... :D But the reason I originally asked is that 1095 and 5160 is significantly cheaper than O-1.
 
Listen to Jason Cutter. I like O1 better than either of the aforementioned steels.
 
HKG36 said:
What steel is better for making a knife?

5160 or 1095?

Would you consider $14 a fair price for a piece of 3/16"x1 1/2"x 18" 1095 steel?
Click to expand...


I think that whenever a question like this is asked there are a plethora of questions and qualifiers, but the the obvious is too often overlooked. The first thing anybody should do when sitting down to plan a knife is ask "what will it be used for?"

If your primary use will be for cutting go with 1095, if you will be chopping and hitting alot of things but not a lot if fine slicing go with 5160. Bladesmiths are the best at driving square pegs into round holes, I think it is all the hammer work we do ;) , each and every steel on the market today had a particular application it was designed to do, if we study this and then match that application up to our uses and manufacturing ability, we are almost assured success. By abandoning this simple rule I have seen some pretty crazy things being done to some poor unsuspecting steel in order to make it do a job it was never meant to do.

P.S. Dan do you have the full sized file for that avatar? That thing is driving me crazy!
 
I was taught on 1095. I have used it for about 6 months (yes, I have a wealth of knowledge!!! ;) ) I have had some trouble on the HT of 1095 early on, but it is easy to "re-do".

I have read a lot, especially in this forum, on O1. I am kicking around trying that.

I was told that 5160 was troublesome, so go figure....

Have fun.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
P.S. Dan do you have the full sized file for that avatar? That thing is driving me crazy!
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Thank you Kevin for asking that "out loud". I'd love a whole gallery like that!

Would you agree that one of the best steels for a beginner is one they will able to correctly and successfully HT? My thinking was to try and ensure learning the process through initial success and only then start making the mistakes in order to advance knowledge...

One would quickly learn not to make jackhammer bits out of 154CM.

interesting discussion.......
 
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