Which steel produces the finest edge?

Franco G said:
Steve, I would like to hear your esteemed opinion about BG-42 steel. Many people praise it as a fine edge steel, e. g. Sal Glesser, etc.
My very positive experience with BG-42 comes from Spyderco's CF Military and Buck's 110 custom (red/black Micarta/G-10 combo) and the 532 Year 2000 knife, the Bucks beeing HT by Paul Bos, of course.

Thanks,

Franco
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I have high praises for BG42 for the most part but its problematic in several known areas regarding heat treating it right, being rather expensive and I understand now, harder to find too.

I rate it as a finer grained more refined alloy than S30V personally but I can't say I've looked at both that close. I'm just basing that on my experience sharpening both. S30V is a great steel don't take that wrong. I'm certainly not down playing it. Its just a steel I really feel is more appropriate for aggressive toothy 'thicker' edges for strength not highly polished ones. BG42 seems to be able to wear both hats.

As I pointed out earlier though 13C26 AKA Aeb-L is a very small carbide steel and you can make this steel very thin and very highly polished along the apex of the edge as a result. The difference between that and S30V is pretty stark. Lose a carbide in AEB-L and you can't really even feel it and most times have to struggle to see it or in my case you just can't. :D But S30V you notice the chunk missing with the naked eye pretty much right away. D2 is the same way which is why both these steels reflect a lot of light back at you right after cutting even a small amount of old used carpet for example. Now that does not mean they won't still cut, in fact some reports indicate they just get toothier and keep sawing the stuff even better shortly after you get to tearing in to the edge a bit. I've noted this myself a time or two. Thats why they slice so well I think.

BG42 would probably be more popular if it were not so expensive but the double vac heat treat process is supposed to be the other kicker and I guess Mete could cover that a lot more detailed than I could. Heat treat science is not my thing. I think its due to these two things that we only see this steel in limited runs and sometimes things like 1st Production runs.

For what its worth I understand from Ragnar at Ragweed forge that some wood carvers have really taken a shine to 12C27 and I know the Norwegians certainly have also because it can be taken thin and sharp. Being tougher than 13C26 it may be just a viable a steel to chose for the highly polished edge so to me these are the two best candidates for stainless.

Probably a bit more than you wanted but I hope that helps.
STR
 
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The bearing quality and aircraft quality steels are the highest quality and that should help getting a good edge.From the chemistry BG-42 and S30V should be very close.I don't have a BG-42 blade so I can't give you personal input.
When woodcarving there is always a compromise between ease of sharpening and wear resistance. I tend to go to the better wear resistance these days.
 
Carbon steel is my favorite to sharpen to a fine edge. 1095 and Case CV have impressed me to no end.
 
SPXTrader said:
Thinned it a little and polished it. Very simple.
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SPXTrader said:
Belt sander and paper wheels. Sorry I don't have any pics of the sander.
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This is all what you have to say?

You should be proud of sharpening hardest to sharpen steel to this level. No one else did so to my knowledge. You should post some pics of your knife whittling hair - as many did. On my opinion this is great acheavement.

This steel contain huge amount of carbides - also very hard carbides and they re harder then chromium oxides. I at least was not able to sharpen it to hair whittling level with Green Rouge.

It will be to benefit of everybody to know what load did you use and other details. I also like to able to do this myself but having no or much less problems with other steels I fail to do this to CPM S110V after several attempts.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I noticed another forum called CPM-S125V "The Super Steel". I know very little about much of the blade steel out there, but was wondering how this or the 15V would stack up in this category?
 
Just in terms of keenness of polished edge, my best experience has been with O1.

On the semi-stainless front, I have been able to get just as good an edge on CRK's S30V as I have on CRK's BG. Don't have any other experience with S30V to compare. Have noticed different wear characteristics between the two, but they seem to cut about the same if pampered.

D2 always seems to be toothier, so not quite as keen, but seems to hold an edge well for lighter duty stuff.

INFI seems to be less toothy than D2, so a little keener when the edge is fresh. Of course the real story there is in toughness, though.

Still speaking subjectively here (sorry Vassili)... I find it pretty easy to get a very keen edge on some of my old ATS Microtechs - a little more so than Bos' BG.

For my purposes, there's a lot more to life than push-cutting cigarette papers and whittling hair. I like to look at how an edge performs as a utility tool. In some cases a toothier (less keen) edge is more practical. That seems to be the case with CRK's S30V. It doesn't have that buttery-soft feel of O1, but it takes a real good utility edge and holds it well... and is surprisingly easy to restore.

Guess what I'm trying to say is you have to consider how the knife will be used, how often it will be touched up, etc.
 
I would guess heat treat matters more than the steel.

I've gotten S30V, S60V, BG42, D2, AUS8, 13C26, 12C27, 440C, 420HC, AUS6, 1095, 1055, SAK steel, CPMD2, 154CM, 420J2, 8Cr13MoV, 51200 and probably some I'm forgetting to hair whittling sharpness.

I found ZDP189, BG42, CPMD2, S30V and 12C27 the easiest to get that sharp.
 
tsiloics said:
Just in terms of keenness of polished edge, my best experience has been with O1.

On the semi-stainless front, I have been able to get just as good an edge on CRK's S30V as I have on CRK's BG. Don't have any other experience with S30V to compare. Have noticed different wear characteristics between the two, but they seem to cut about the same if pampered.

D2 always seems to be toothier, so not quite as keen, but seems to hold an edge well for lighter duty stuff.

INFI seems to be less toothy than D2, so a little keener when the edge is fresh. Of course the real story there is in toughness, though.

Still speaking subjectively here (sorry Vassili)... I find it pretty easy to get a very keen edge on some of my old ATS Microtechs - a little more so than Bos' BG.

For my purposes, there's a lot more to life than push-cutting cigarette papers and whittling hair. I like to look at how an edge performs as a utility tool. In some cases a toothier (less keen) edge is more practical. That seems to be the case with CRK's S30V. It doesn't have that buttery-soft feel of O1, but it takes a real good utility edge and holds it well... and is surprisingly easy to restore.

Guess what I'm trying to say is you have to consider how the knife will be used, how often it will be touched up, etc.
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I agree, a toothy edge is generally better for everyday cutting. I have had knives that were hair whittling sharp that just didnt seem to cut at well as a comparison knife with a blade with more microserrations.
 
I am not sure what people start meaning by hair whittling sharp - this is simple edge which can whittle hair and it may be 30 degree or 40 degree. To me it seems like this term get twisted and have other meaning now.

There is other term polished edge which most simple round up and actually get it dull - which make many of them to believe that polished edge last less. This is not properly polished edge. It simple need to whittle hair like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPwHu4lxsQ

If you are not able to do this after polishing - you edge are dull, rounded up.

To my experience and to experience of others who do polish edge properly and able to whittle hair - this edge stays sharp longer then any other edges. It has better starting point (and it is most visible on top steels) and also get less damage because less friction envolved etc. We discuss this many times on maintenance subforum.

So far whoever complained about polished edge dulling faster, never proved that they actually did whittle hair. So this is matter of personal skills more - all who able to make whittling hair - see "Records..." thread never complained.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I am not sure what people start meaning by hair whittling sharp - this is simple edge which can whittle hair and it may be 30 degree or 40 degree. To me it seems like this term get twisted and have other meaning now.
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Some people here think of sharpness and edge geometry as one and the same, so they equate "hair whittling sharpness" to razor-thin edges.

Regardless I agree, that the sharper the knife begins the longer it will hold an edge. Common sense.
 
J_Curd said:
Not if its 18 degrees inclusive.
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Once again.

Hair whitteling edge has nothing to do with edge angle. All my knives have over 30 degree and whittle hair (except CPM S110V yet)

Hair whitteling edge has nothing to do with edge angle. All my knives have over 30 degree and whittle hair (except CPM S110V yet)

Hair whitteling edge has nothing to do with edge angle. All my knives have over 30 degree and whittle hair (except CPM S110V yet)

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Vassilli, ever with the condescension. Let's put my reply in full context...

Vivi said:
Some people here think of sharpness and edge geometry as one and the same, so they equate "hair whittling sharpness" to razor-thin edges.

Regardless I agree, that the sharper the knife begins the longer it will hold an edge. Common sense.
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To which I reply: "Not if it's 18 degrees inclusive"

My reply is fully justified.

BTW, I think your copy/paste hand has a twitch. Also, I dont give a rats arse about whittling hair or what you sharpen your knives to...I wasnt even talking to you.
 
J_Curd said:
Not if its 18 degrees inclusive.
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What is that relevant to? The statement, "the sharper the knife begins the longer it will hold an edge" specifies nothing about edge angle.

Also, what blade steels have failed you under normal use at 18 degrees inclusive?
 
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