Which steel shows the hamon best?

That was quick.

Hope you don't mind Dan but can we do two things at once on your thread.

And, what clay (or what else instead) should be used for a edge quench and where can it be gotten. Wire wrap it?
 
Holy smokes, Dan...! I was thinking of asking this very question. Maybe I can only suggest this: 1086, 1095? I think these steels yield a beautiful, frosty-white hamon. At least they do for Don Fogg. Check his site for some great hamon pics.

Roger: I read somewhere that the old Japanese smiths all had different recipes for their clay. The whole idea is to get a clay that coats the blade to protect from the harsh quench, yet not to fall off during the quench, right? I think some folks just use satanite, but you can mix it with different clays and sand to create your own blend.
 
Dan...

If this means you are starting to do forging and hamons, pleeaaaaaase let me know... I have.... "ideas"...

<sound of Pendentive running away, very quickly>

;)

Thankee much.

-j
 
forging = yes
hamons = yes, a la Roger


But I'm closing up shop until the end of July....:(
(see recent threads in the HI forum)


Still have a few things up my sleeve, though.....:D




Jeff and David - 1095 and 1084 I got. I'll give those a shot.

What about the clay? Any links to sources?

Thanks!
 
July, Schmuly. If folks can wait for an Allen Blade for 3 years or an Emerson for 7+ years, what's a couple of months for a Koster!?

:)

It just means I have a couple of months to come up with something to truly baffle you. ;)

-j
 
i have done a couple with 1080/1084 and 1095, using furnace cement from Lowes that i think turned out pretty good, didnt even have to wire it on. i have heard others use porcelin slip and satanite, but i think they have to wire it on so it doesnt crack and fall off during the heating up and quench. the furnace cement i get at lowes has been staying on til the steel loses color in the qunech then most of it just falls off in the quench, i put it on about the thickness of a nickle, then i scrape off the rest quickly, wipe the oil off and temper immediately. the last one i did was 1095 with a temp meter in my forge so as not to over heat and quenched in oil over water and i liked it.

edit: i am pretty new to making knives and only made a few, so even tho i liked them it is from a very very limited exposure. :D
 
as far as i know a lot of people doing traditional japansese blades actually use 1050.... doesn't harden too well but dam does it give a good hammon. or so they say
 
p.s. you might want to try swordforums.com and post something there... they know a good deal on things like that... use the general forums
 
Get some satanite from Darren Ellis -- the refractory cement from hardware stores works, but the satanite is easier to work with and use.
 
"If they use anything other than a 10XX or W1 / W2 steels, it becomes nearly impossible to really "paint with cristals" (Don Fogg's expression)."

CarvedTantoIll800.jpg


IvoryYakuzaIll_01.jpg


IMO nobody does it better than Don....his forum - http://www.dfoggknives.com/cgi-bin/IkonBoard/ikonboard.cgi?
 
any of the 10xx series of steels will work well for a hamon, generally, the lower the carbon content the wider the habuchi line, ive used 1095,1084 and 1065, with 1065 having the most profound hamon so far. 1084 is a very good first choice in my opinion, with 1095 you have to watch your quench time or the hamon may not be what you expected, and 1065 took me a bit to get dialed in, the hamon tends to be somewhat wider and you have to be careful to get a nice even heat or it may look blotchy. as for clay, ive used straight satanite, furnace cement and a mixture of the two, but i keep coming back to straight satanite for ease of use and quailty of hamon i get, but alot can depend on your quench medium also. ive found with water i like to wash the blade with a thin coat then put it on thicker to design my hamon, however when ive used 1095 with an oil quench the thin wash of satanite didnt work well at all, the hamon tended to dip quite low on the blade, with the 1095 in an oil quench i just put it on thick where i want the line, and have gotten very good results. in my opinion water quenched blades seem to have a brighter and more active hamon, but with water you can have that nasty little PING sound to deal with. also when using atraight satanite be sure it is completley dry, i usually let it set for 24 hours then check to see if i have any hairline cracks in my coating, if there are cracks i use a watery mix of satanite to patch the cracks , put it in the oven at 200 deg for about an hour and then proceed to heat treat. trial and error seems to work well, when you find a system you like take notes and try and get consistant results.
 
Okay, it is now time for an ignorant question. When quenching a coated blade (such as with satanite) do I do a full quench or an edge quench?

RL
 
Can santanite also be used to line a forge over top of koa woal to protect against welding slag?
Thanks
Luke
 
Lukers said:
Can santanite also be used to line a forge over top of koa woal to protect against welding slag?
Thanks
Luke
Click to expand...

Yes , but if in a horizontal forge after a while it will sag.

Roger, you can do it either way. I've had good results just putting on the Demon and going straight into the forge without drying it. It just plops right off when the blade cools off on full quench. Edge quench it takes a couple of light taps or a quick scrape with a knife to pop it off.
 
Like already posted, any of the simple carbon steels work well. The more alloys in the steel, the harder it is to bring out the line. I like the hamons I see with W1 or W2, but here's one of the nicest ones in a camp knife made out of 1095 from Burt Foster.
 
Thanks for the great information, guys.
 
Perhaps a bit late into the discussion...but...

Bob Engnath and many other people were able to get very active and visible hamon on 1050 especially. 1084 and higher, the lines get harder to "control".

If you just want something that is defined and can be active, virtually any 10xx and W1 variation will do OK.

For a more Japanese-style controlled hamon, you would try to find a steel close to eutectoid (or lower C) with a very low level of elements that permit deeper-hardening (manganese, chrome, et cetera). Because steels like 1084 have a rather high amount of manganese on the average, the end result looks a little different most of the time. Note on those Don Fogg pieces and many Howard Clark pieces, the steel used is a 1086-modified with low manganese and a dash of vanadium.

Further, you can bring out virtually any kind of hamon with a good etching and polishing method. In my limited but recent experience etching, FeCl works much better for highlighting welded structure while gradual, repeated etches with vinegar work better for the hamon.

I used to be a real snob about seeing this stuff on non-Japanese-style pieces, but now I like it. My only beef is when people etch really deeply and don't adequately clean it up, leaving the hamon blackish. It is actually supposed to be white, and the softer steel will ideally be "darker" than the hardened edge.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top