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Which USMC
- Thread starter pkd3
- Start date
trz,
thanks for the reply. what do you think the differences are that keep them from being identical and what about the 5684? Was the 5684 an issue knife as well? Also I spoke with my uncle who still has his issue knife and confirms that it is Camillus but has no Marine logo on the brown sheath but does have Paul Blaze stamped in it. Any clue?
[This message has been edited by pkd3 (edited 10-22-2000).]
thanks for the reply. what do you think the differences are that keep them from being identical and what about the 5684? Was the 5684 an issue knife as well? Also I spoke with my uncle who still has his issue knife and confirms that it is Camillus but has no Marine logo on the brown sheath but does have Paul Blaze stamped in it. Any clue?
[This message has been edited by pkd3 (edited 10-22-2000).]
I'll have to agree with Bruce. Though I wasn't there
what data I can get is about the same on most of the "tools" of the time. There was such a huge demand for all the weopons and tools of the time that everybody and anybody that would meet specs were in the make of things. My uncle did confirm that the knife that he and dad were issued was Camillus, but even Dad has told me that they were all called Ka-Bars because that is who seemed to make the design famous. The problem seem to lie in the fact that Kabar could not crank them out fast enough so Uncle Sam got some help from another manufacturer who could handle the load. If anybody knows any different please chime in.
Phil
Phil
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 3,150
Camillus actually developed the knife at the request of the government.
Tom Wiliams, can you elaborate?
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"The most effective armor is to keep out of range"-Italian proverb
Tom Wiliams, can you elaborate?
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"The most effective armor is to keep out of range"-Italian proverb
no kabar was the one who developed it, camillus i believe developed the mk 1(which was also later manufactered by pal), which was weak at the crossguard(the tang area at the crossguard that is), so the mk2 better known as the kabar was developed (by kabar). its interesting because case also submitted a prototype, but it was rejected because of the unusually thin weak pommel, but case makes it now!..even though it was never accepted. camillus, ontario, kabar and others produced the m2 for many years. the current contractors for them are camillus and ontario.
Actually the USMC developed it using a Ka-Bar hunting knife already in production as it's model. They beefed the blade up and redesigned the handle. Camillus refined the design by affixing the pommel with a pin as opposed to the peened tang method used by Ka-Bar. The first year of production had Union Cutlery (Ka-Bar) sending 350,000 knives to the USMC while Camillus supplied 150,000, PAL supplied 100,000 and Robeson followed up the rear with 10,000 knives. Possibly that is why the Marines called them k-bars, they were issued 3 to 1 over the Camillus products. On the other hand Camillus supplied their Navy brothers with 331,600 in the first year while Union (Ka-Bar) only supplied them with 60,000 knives. Navy knives have always been called Mark 2's, perhaps it is easier to say then Camillus. The end result was that Camillus made more knives in the first full year of production (1943) then did Union, but Ka-bar won the USMC name game hands down, and it sticks to this day. Ontario is the sole govt producer now but they are still refered to as k-bars by even the newest Marines.
Frank
Frank
As for the first question, any scabbard stamped with USMC or Camillus or Ka-bar or Case on the face of it is a reproduction. None were made like this during WW II. The only markings on original WW II scabbards was one producer who put their name on it up under the handle retaining strap, Boyt. Sometimes USMC / Boyt / 43 and sometimes USN but never a knife company name. This pattern knife is the most widely faked military knife on the market today. I like to think most sellers just don't know the difference and leave it at that. Check ebay any day and you will find a reproduction Mark 2 being sold as WW II era. The differences in the WW II Camillus and the newly made model are very hard to tell apart. The new knives have a much better finish then did the WW II models, held to higher standards today as commercial sales models. The stamps used are slightly different on the "U.S.M.C." stamped side. Unless you know what you are looking for or holding two known time era knives side by side you can easily miss it. The scabbard is the easiest giveaway if it is still in the proper scabbard. Other then that it is hard to tell.
Frank
Frank