Whip out and deploy vs cutting efficiency.

Whats more important in a knife

  • Cutting efficiency

    Votes: 110 92.4%

  • Whip out and deploy

    Votes: 16 13.4%

  • Pry bar, Hard use, I don't care about cutting ability.

    Votes: 8 6.7%
  • Total voters
    119
Yeah most electricians i know have all their knives sitting in a bowl at home, and they use box cutters all day long. Hawkbills are company issued to linemen. Off the job and back in the country, I've made hundreds of apparatuses using 2 litre bottles; dozens of which have been repurposed as slow drip filters. After doing this for years, I went ahead to start making the hole in the plastic bottle cap for the hose from the 2 litre bottle with my Alan Folts Minimalist. The knife tip instantly broke off. Guess I'm a hard use idiot despite making dozens beforehand, and afterward, with zero issues. The point I'm trying to make, OP, is I'll kindly sell you my broken tip Minimalist at full price, because the missing tip doesn't effect the knife's slicability - the only thing that matters. :D

I agree these moderns with $2,000+ pricetags looking more like sporks and smatchets than anything close to a knife is a bizarre part of the knife world, especially since they're every bit as pris'queen when they're resold years later. I don't buy knives of that kind.
 
I enjoy seeing the "bizarre" blades, but I don't buy them. I even enjoy a $2,000 blade.... I look at it and wonder where all the value is other than who made it.... People who buy stuff like this don't live in the same world I do.
 
Dangerously said:
I don’t know how to say this without it sounding like you’re on my lawn, but I disagree.

I also didn’t distinguish between grinds until I cut with a knife that was ground really thin and acute. The difference in cutting ability (low force required to get a clean cut) was so stark, I have not been able to stand a factory grind since.

Factory geometry has to balance cutting ability with manufacturing cost, returns, warranty claims from non knife people, and knife use that goes beyond just cutting things.

Once you know your usage, you can take a knife really really thin to optimize its cutting ability without affecting the durability of the edge. It makes quite a difference.
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I just meant in general. There have been others with grinds I couldn't stand, like a saber grind, I find utterly useless. I have a Spyderco with saber and I loathe it passionately. There's always exceptions to the rules, I just meant in general and base this off my own experience buying knives recently. All are pretty much perfect except for that Spyderco Endura. I think manufacturers have a pretty solid idea of what cuts and what doesn't and designs the knives to fit that. At least major manufacturers.
 
Two posts moved to the DA thread.
 
It does not take long nor is it inconvenient for me to pull out a small thin bladed ultra slicy slipjoint and cut something ,that's of course not the only thing I carry but it shows how I am as far as speed goes.
 
Thanks for the responses.
The poll didn't turn out like I thought, I was expecting the bottom two responses.

My favorite fixed is a Kabar Mark 1, it's .170 at the spine and many folding knives carry blades that are thicker. It's kind of hard for me to wrap my mind around a folder that's heavier bladed than a fixed.
It just seems like thinner blades not necessarily thin at the point are hard to find in a modern knife. By the time you sort thru your preference for length, blade shape, geometry, steel, opening method etc, there's not much left to choose from.
It's interesting to see that what some consider cutters/slicers, I consider heavy duty.
 
BenchCo Spydermade said:
I see no reason one cant have a knife that cuts great and is easy to open as well. As far as prying, I'll grab a screwdriver or something...
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Same here- I like the PM2 for that. Fortunately I don't need to do any prying when I'm away from home, when I'm home I have plenty of other tools available.
 
It's funny because I am the one that made the post about whipping it out and deploying but I chose cutting efficiency in your poll.

My post wasn't necessarily about the fastest absolute deployment speed, but rather the most optimal way to open a knife given its design parameters.

For example, with my gec 15, I really like having the ez open notch because it allows me to pinch it open vs having to use a nail knick. So my preference would be for a slipjoint that is pinchable vs one that isn't.

But when it comes to cutting efficiency, I agree that manufacturers are designing for the lowest common denominator. Outside of the knife knut community, I doubt anyone that buys a knife knows or cares about the performance differences of a Saber vs hollow grind. Or knows what bte means.

It doesn't make sense to me that knives with m390 or s110v are getting 20 degree bevels (or greater). The whole point of having a higher performance steel is that you can have the same toughness and durability in a thinner blade. And that thinner blade is what increases cutting ability. It's like having a sports car with a limiter at 110 mph. What's the point of having a vehicle that can go 200 mph if you're artificially limiting it to 110.

The moral of my story is that you should all go out and reprofile your supersteels to 13 degrees and back off if it starts chipping or rolling.
 
James Y said:
...To me, "speed of deployment" is not a selling point. My knives are tools, and not primarily a weapon or a prop to show off with. I get them open quickly enough to do whatever chore needs to be done without worrying about being a quick-draw artist...
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Agreed.

One hand opening is a plus in my book but it is only part of the equation. Blade steel, thickness, and geometry all play a role. So does scale material and handle ergonomics. Speed of opening plays very little, if any, in my choice of knife purchases.

Also, pocket real estate plays a huge role for me. Does the knife ride securely in my pocket without coming out, unwanted? Can I easily reach my keys with the knife in my pocket or does it get in the way? Just as important is the ability to separate my knife and keys while they are still in my pocket. If I pull out my keys to unlock my Jeep, I don't need my $150 folder dropping to the ground in some poorly illuminated parking lot.

"Whip out and deploy?" Come on, I'm not a 10-year-old mall ninja.
 
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I don't care if it's my EDC folder, or my sidearm fixed blade, it has to cut. Overhand stab or low torso strike, it the blade's not sufficiently sharp, it's just a tent stake.
 
Ok, so I gotta say, when I'm in public I dont "whip out and deploy" my blades cuz it draws negative attention. But while I'm now a mature adult(lol) I still have the young kid in me that thought flipping a butterfly knife was the coolest thing in the world. Still think its awesome when a knife waves out. Still think a wrist flick is way cooler than two hand opening a nail nick. I just know when not to do those things now.
 
Like the vast majority, I chose option 1). However, I don’t see that all useful knives must have the sliciest of all possible geometries. Take the Benchmade Adamas, for example. Truth be told, I bought one simply because I wanted it, but imagine my surprise when I found out that it was really good at cutting things! Sure, it would split an onion or potato, it won’t shave transparently thin slices of cucumber. But, it will cut things all day long and it will keep cutting the next day and the day after that.

Oh, and it meets the other two poll criteria as well.

I also own a Manly Wasp. ;)
 
Dean51 said:
The poll didn't turn out like I thought, I was expecting the bottom two responses.
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I noticed that too. I think part of it is just that many knife guys only value cutting ability to the point it’s “good enough”, and their “good enough” is far lower than other knife guys. But they still say they value it.

I see this in some reviews. Like using a thick folder to chop vegetables in the kitchen instead of something like a nakiri, and calling it good. So they’ll still self-report that they value cutting ability, but it’s different than the sushi chef saying he values cutting ability.
 
The market today is full of knives that satisfy the "needs" of the consumer.
A knife has so many dimensions and the combinations seem to be endless -
so the impression might occur, that the core competences have been lost.
I found that not to be the case. These days you only have to look harder.
 
These days it is all about looks. It is hard to beat Grandad’s old trapper for cutting ability, but it doesn’t look as intimidating as a Medford Marauder! It is the same at the rifle rage. These wanna be, self trained “scout snipers” have all these gadgets hanging off their AR15 because it looks cool.....
I have been through the stages of collecting and seem to always come back to a simple, full flat grind, leaf shaped, Spyderco for edc and a drop point for field dressing and camp duty. It works for what I need.
 
Dangerously said:
I noticed that too. I think part of it is just that many knife guys only value cutting ability to the point it’s “good enough”, and their “good enough” is far lower than other knife guys. But they still say they value it.

I see this in some reviews. Like using a thick folder to chop vegetables in the kitchen instead of something like a nakiri, and calling it good. So they’ll still self-report that they value cutting ability, but it’s different than the sushi chef saying he values cutting ability.
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I have different expectations for cutting ability with folders vs a Japanese chef knife. I like a folder to be well rounded while for a chef knife, cut and slice is all that matters. So when I say my talwar or x5 is great for food prep I am not comparing it to my Kramer or shun. I can also take the talwar and chop wood, stab and penetrate any material etc...
 
I must be able to whip it out and start prying as fast as possible. that's why I always choose Emerson knives!!! Made to pry manhole covers what more could you ask for!!!!
 
ponykid said:
I must be able to whip it out and start prying as fast as possible. that's why I always choose Emerson knives!!! Made to pry manhole covers what more could you ask for!!!!
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Haha you and I were thinking the same exact thing. Two paragraphs about abysmal saber grinds (check my profile photo, true saber) without a single mention of Emerson chisels!
 
red mag said:
The market today is full of knives that satisfy the "needs" of the consumer.
A knife has so many dimensions and the combinations seem to be endless -
so the impression might occur, that the core competences have been lost.
I found that not to be the case. These days you only have to look harder.
Click to expand...
Much harder.
Two knives I would like to have are the Benchmade Valet and Mini Griptilian, both would make very nice edc's. The size is exactly what I like, that 3 7/8" to 4 1/4" closed range. I've handled both like the handles, I can roll the blades open easily. But. Both are plagued with a saber ground blade that just ruins their cutting abilities, even the Proper is ground like a sword.... Doesn't Benchmade realize that a small knife should be able to slice/cut.
I can understand a 5" closed folder being heavier bladed but not smaller knives.

Before I get slammed as a Benchmade hater, I actually have 4 and really like the axis lock. I just can't see buying more until Benchmade overcomes their fear of thin flat grands.
 
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