whittling/splitting hairs

J

John Frankl

Joined
Oct 16, 2001
Messages
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I tried this for the first time yesterday with a lot of success.

Is this considered a parlor trick, or does it actually correspond to some serious sharpening skill?
 
John Frankl said:
I tried this for the first time yesterday with a lot of success.

Is this considered a parlor trick, or does it actually correspond to some serious sharpening skill?
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It is kind of a parlor trick, IMO. All that's required is that the edge is sufficiently sharp to "catch" a fiber of the hair, from there you're just peeling it away from the hair shaft. Part of the trick is to "whittle" in the right direction, which is from the end of the hair towards the root.

It actually becomes quite a bit trickier when you take a much finer, more polished edge, because it then becomes very easy to simply cut completely through the hair. With such an edge you have to hold it at a very low angle to the hair, and be very careful as the fibers start to peel away.

I won't say it's a meaningless test of sharpness -- an edge that will whittle hair isn't dull by any reasonable definition. But there are much higher levels of sharpness than mere hair whittling; plus hair whittling isn't a quantified test, so it really doesn't say much about how sharp an edge truly is, or for that matter how coarse/fine an edge it is.
 
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I would say it depends on the ease. I did manage to split a hair with a 100 grit edge, but that took many attempts to catch the hair as DoW said. Some of the youtube videos show a hair split multiple times, with each touch to the hair making a split. The hair is also a big factor. I have trouble splitting my hair because I have to use arm/leg hair due to my short hair(as in skin fade), and it isn't much longer. My girlfriend's fine hair is so soft from all the products she uses, it flops around like a dead fish even cut to 2 inch lengths. With slightly convexed edges going over 35 degrees included, it is sometimes a bit challenging if I skimp on the sharpening time.
 
hardheart said:
I would say it depends on the ease. I did manage to split a hair with a 100 grit edge, but that took many attempts to catch the hair as DoW said. Some of the youtube videos show a hair split multiple times, with each touch to the hair making a split. The hair is also a big factor. I have trouble splitting my hair because I have to use arm/leg hair due to my short hair(as in skin fade), and it isn't much longer. My girlfriend's fine hair is so soft from all the products she uses, it flops around like a dead fish even cut to 2 inch lengths. With slightly convexed edges going over 35 degrees included, it is sometimes a bit challenging if I skimp on the sharpening time.
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Agree with everything hardheart has said :thumbup: ... except I don't know about his girlfriend's hair (well, not that I/she will admit anyway. :D ) In order to whittle a hair several times, consistently, without a bunch of do-overs, requires a very fine, polished edge. So if you can make kind of a "hair fuzz-stick", yeah, that IMO shows a great deal of edge refinement and consistency.
 
Dog of War said:
It is kind of a parlor trick, IMO. All that's required is that the edge is sufficiently sharp to "catch" a fiber of the hair, from there you're just peeling it away from the hair shaft. Part of the trick is to "whittle" in the right direction, which is from the end of the hair towards the root.

It actually becomes quite a bit trickier when you take a much finer, more polished edge, because it then becomes very easy to simply cut completely through the hair. With such an edge you have to hold it at a very low angle to the hair, and be very careful as the fibers start to peel away.

I won't say it's a meaningless test of sharpness -- an edge that will whittle hair isn't dull by any reasonable definition. But there are much higher levels of sharpness than mere hair whittling; plus hair whittling isn't a quantified test, so it really doesn't say much about how sharp an edge truly is, or for that matter how coarse/fine an edge it is.
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Agreed 100%. After my edges get more polished/sharper, it actually becomes more difficult to whittle hair than earlier in the sharpening session when the knife first got to hair whittling sharpness because they just split in 2 when the hair touches the blade unless the angle is almost flat like you describe (this is really noticeable on M4 or CPM D2 at polish of 1 micron or finer). Also, as mentioned by Hardheart, the specific hair you are whittling matters. My daughter's hair is the most difficult to whittle out mine, hers, and my wife's, so I try to use my daughter's hair when I test my edges. When I get my angles of attack on the hair right I can make nice fuzz sticks with hair, though most of the time I'll get a couple splits then just sever the hair in 2 accidentally.

Mike
 
what angles are you guys typically using. I know some of you are working single digit per side bevels, and I can have a hell of a time getting 15-18 degree/side mildly convexed edges to get into the hair without popping it apart.
 
All of these guys are right. It takes some skill, (beyond sharpening skill).

It's pretty challenging to whittle hair with my straight razors, but it's very easy with my camp knife. Obviously it's not just a measure of sharpness.

And yes, it's more than a little obsessive.
 
hardheart said:
what angles are you guys typically using. I know some of you are working single digit per side bevels, and I can have a hell of a time getting 15-18 degree/side mildly convexed edges to get into the hair without popping it apart.
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Nearly all my knives are 10-12 degrees/side with a 15-17 deg/side microbevel. I really haven't tried anything more acute for a long time, in fact have been starting to dabble a bit lately with more robust geometry, which seems to get just as sharp.

IMO the biggest factor by far in achieving a very fine edge that's super sharp, consistent along its entire length, and durable is using lighter and lighter pressure throughout the sharpening process. And it still amazes how it's the feather-light touch in the finishing steps that seems to really give a blade that quantum leap in sharpness -- fantastic hair poppers, and pretty frustrating whittlers unless you've got a very steady hand and a good bit of patience.

BTW, I just saw this photo posted by knifeknut. Definitely super sharp, and a helluva lot steadier hand than I have when you get 'em that way:

Picture445.jpg
 
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Phillip Dobson said:
All of these guys are right. It takes some skill, (beyond sharpening skill).

It's pretty challenging to whittle hair with my straight razors, but it's very easy with my camp knife. Obviously it's not just a measure of sharpness.

And yes, it's more than a little obsessive.
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Obsessive? These guys? Naaahhhh!!!! :D:eek:

I've never whittled, I generally go to tree-top trimming, then stop because I'm lazy. I've handled some of Gunmike1's edges, and he's a lot better freehand than I am, I have to use my edgepro to try to catch him. I have no doubt that hardheart and DOW are the same.

For a comparison, my straight razors are honed to 14 deg inclusive, and I don't even think about stropping them and shaving until they will easily catch arm hairs 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch above my skin, going into the curl, if you know what I mean. And these guys are getting their knives sharper....

Trust me on one thing, if you want to see how sharp your knife is, shave your chin. Try it... Gunmike1 shaved his head with one, I have no doubt that others have done similar feats.
 
Yes, I've used several different knives w/ different steels to shave with. Careful, there is a learning curve.DM
 
sodak said:
Obsessive? These guys? Naaahhhh!!!! :D:eek:

I've never whittled, I generally go to tree-top trimming, then stop because I'm lazy. I've handled some of Gunmike1's edges, and he's a lot better freehand than I am, I have to use my edgepro to try to catch him. I have no doubt that hardheart and DOW are the same.

For a comparison, my straight razors are honed to 14 deg inclusive, and I don't even think about stropping them and shaving until they will easily catch arm hairs 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch above my skin, going into the curl, if you know what I mean. And these guys are getting their knives sharper....

Trust me on one thing, if you want to see how sharp your knife is, shave your chin. Try it... Gunmike1 shaved his head with one, I have no doubt that others have done similar feats.
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I only have like 5 hairs under my chin lol.
 
Sodak, you flatter me with undue praise of my abilities, but I am still thinking of mailing you my M4 Mule to see how much improved my edges are since I last sent you a knife when my skills were more lacking. I doubt it's better than your edge pro work, but I have gotten better in the last couple years. The herd you sent me a while back really impressed me with what an edge pro can do in the right hands. E mail me if you want to check out how nice Tom Krein's handle and sheath work on the Mules is. He won't do any more ZDP Mules after having 2 of 10 break when he put handles on them (mine is OK), but if you are thinking of having TK work on a Mule of yours you can check out my OK edges at the same time you get a preview of how nice your Mules can be.

Mike
 
Did someone say obsess? OK, maybe, well yes. I am just at whittling phase, edge of knife will catch hair being held on one end. I use my head hair, or my beard hair. I shaved my arm hair for awhile, but have moved on to whittling. I cannot tree top yet. The search continues..........
 
I've never achieved "hair whittling" sharpness."Shaving sharp" is as sharp as I've ever gotten any edge.FWIW ,I've never needed a sharper edge than that.
 
JTR357 said:
I've never achieved "hair whittling" sharpness."Shaving sharp" is as sharp as I've ever gotten any edge.FWIW ,I've never needed a sharper edge than that.
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You never need a sharper edge until you achieve one, then you wonder why you ever used a duller knife ;)
 
knifenut1013 said:
You never need a sharper edge until you achieve one, then you wonder why you ever used a duller knife ;)
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This is why I live in the lunatic fringe of knife sharpening. I am always looking to get sharper. It is the quest, more than the nebulous destination. It is a great distraction from life's troubles.
 
When someone whittles a hair into a statue of the Eiffel Tower, then I'll be impressed. :D

Stitchawl
 
sodak said:
Obsessive? These guys? Naaahhhh!!!! :D:eek:

I've never whittled, I generally go to tree-top trimming, then stop because I'm lazy. I've handled some of Gunmike1's edges, and he's a lot better freehand than I am, I have to use my edgepro to try to catch him. I have no doubt that hardheart and DOW are the same.

For a comparison, my straight razors are honed to 14 deg inclusive, and I don't even think about stropping them and shaving until they will easily catch arm hairs 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch above my skin, going into the curl, if you know what I mean. And these guys are getting their knives sharper....

Trust me on one thing, if you want to see how sharp your knife is, shave your chin. Try it... Gunmike1 shaved his head with one, I have no doubt that others have done similar feats.
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You've put me in outstanding company there, Sodak, I thank you, but doubt I deserve it. My sharpening technique totally depends on the microbevel ... I'm truly in awe of these amazing, fully polished edges others have the patience to produce.

Re shaving: best thing that ever happened to me was when stubble became fashionable/acceptable. :) I don't have that heavy a beard, but it's horribly coarse in places, and very inconsistent. I had a barber once tell me he was amazed I could shave myself -- he left me a mess -- and the few times I've tried using a knife I'd sharpened it didn't go well at all.

But I gotta tell ya ... years ago I got a shave from an old Philippine barber. Using a straight razor, he patiently did my entire face, pinching small areas of beard between thumb and index finger and shaving off the hairs. I was as smooth as the proverbial baby's behind, with nary a nick or scrape, and didn't have to shave until evening, two days later. I was fascinated by his shaving technique, but now wish I'd found out just what he was doing with the strop.
 
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