Who are the future makers of Loveless and Moran stature?

SRJ definetly will get consideration in years to come
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I have to agree but disagree. No one argues with the extreme quality or artistic interpretations of Loveless designs or the fact that he is prolific and trained other top-notch makers, but I just don't see the innovation or the potential for mass market appeal that some of the others mentioned have. I am not sure Johnson is much different than Kressler, or Aida or Davidson --they took Loveless knives and made them their own, either with better fit and finish, refinements, or technology. In the end, their knives are still homages to Loveless and not singularly unique.
 
I would have to second Kit Carson being remembered as one of the greats of knifemaking. Two of his folders, the #4 and #16 are classics of the tactical folder genre. He can make anything from working blades to the fanciest of folders. He helped poplularize the flipper. His name recognition reaches well beyond the narrow confines of custom knife collecting with his CRKT collaborations. I bet his name is on more folders than just about anyone with maybe the exception of Ken Onion. He is greatly admired throughout the custom knife world and he makes a hell of a knife.
 
Thomas-Phil H???? .........you gotta be kidding!!!????
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Its funny Tom, when I put Phil's name down, I was more referring to the way Phil has created a bit of a cult following, that I think is based largely on his personality and the stories he can tell. You certainly can't argue that Phil has done a fine job in getting the most for his knives, proving that the "man" can sometimes be the driving force in how he can be remembered. I don't feel Phil's name should be in the same category as others mentioned, but he has been a magnetizing figure for many a buyer.
 
Anthony Lombardo said:
Explain. Other than adding the ball detent and using Ti for the liner lock what has he done that has changed the face of the world of knives?
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Ooops! Earlier, I chided STeven when I was referring to you in this post, Anthony. Anyway, you have redeemed yourself.... :D

Coop
 
Fascinating question - I wouldn't hazzard a name at this point but there are characteristics to look for that will help identify a worthy candidate.
1. Longevity - they will have to have been at it for a good while, survived many and maybe most of their peers and their peak quality years will have to be sustained for 25+ or so.
2. Productivity - they will have to have put a lot of knives out there into a lot of people's hands. 15-20 knives a year will never do it.
3. Present at the beginning of something big - they will capitalize on a movement of some sort - catch and ride a meaningful wave so to speak.
4. Luck - economic cycles, war, health and all kinds of other variables will have an impact - positive or negative.
5. Given those who clearly have already achieved such status as evidenced by comments above (Moran, Loveless, Scagel......) odds are pretty good that they will have a fundamentally prickly, odd and difficult personality with a strong streak of opinionated stubborness to boot.

Only time will tell......
 
HTMD said:
5. Given those who clearly have already achieved such status as evidenced by comments above (Moran, Loveless, Scagel......) odds are pretty good that they will have a fundamentally prickly, odd and difficult personality with a strong streak of opinionated stubborness to boot.

Only time will tell......
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Buddy,

Maybe I have missed my calling, and should become an active knifemaker?:D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I think Buddy makes some good points. Moran and Loveless aren't in the top knifemaker category; they're in the legend category. And that realm is at least an order of magnitude beyond those cited here for their excellence in knifemaking. No matter how good a knife one makes, he (or she) can't compete with the likes of those two based solely on quality or even uniqueness of product.

After all, who other than Loveless is making small, oddly-handled, dinky hilted ATS34 fixed blade knives today and consistently getting prices in the $5000+++ range for his work? And today certainly there are plenty of masters of the forge who can do what Bill Moran does, or better, with a piece of steel, but who will never have Moran's name recognition.

Writing books 20 years from now about today's makers? WRITING BOOKS? Anyone today who will be so well-known 20 years from now that he will warrant that kind of attention--and marketability in print--will have to be associated in a fundamental way with something much bigger than the knives he makes. And possibly something much bigger than anything we're seeing today.

IMHO
 
Believe it or not.... Strider knives. The've got a military contract plus the fanatical following (I mean that in a good sense).

I certainly agree about KO... mostly due to his very recognizable style. Names like Walker and Cris Reeve will always resound due to the popularity of their locking designs in modern knives.
 
Believe it or not.... Strider knives.
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No I don't believe it!

I think Buddy's answer is pretty much spot on except I don't think Moran was a disagreeable type.

The only real answer to the question is probably-"lets wait 20 years and find out".

The point of the thread was to stimulate some quality discussion on the best makers whose works will leave an indelible mark for for many collectors over time. I am sure there will be makers in 20 years who achieve or are close to achieving the iconic status we are discussing.
 
Anthony - I certainly never experienced Bill Moran as disagreable of difficult in the least. However, a few folks who knew him very well for a long time have expressed that he had an exceedingly strong will, was quite opinionated and - how to say this - well, even some of his best friends would not dare to cross him.

More to the point though, I think these are almost 'necessary' qualities for legend status. Bill Moran seemed (I'm guessing based on personal observation and reports of those who knew him well) to have these qualities well under control most of the time, especially in 'public.' That simply cannot be said of Loveless and Scagel.

As an aside, I think Scagel was actually pretty well known in his time - even before he was 'discovered' by Bo Randall. One has to keep in mind that the world was much smaller in the early 1900's but there is evidence that he was a much sought after custom knife maker - so much so that he was able to get his knives into the catalogs of three major outfitters and in so doing become even more widely known. He made a ton of knives too - very prolific.

Thanks for starting this most interesting thread!
 
Excellent synopsis Buddy, and also Will York.

Buddy, we BOTH know a maker that has every one of those qualities/traits in spades: Tai Goo.

Coop
 
I cant help but wonder if legendary knifemakers arent much like baseball cards. There will never be another baseball card made that will be as valuable as a Mantle rookie, simply because no one was collecting and putting cards in plastic cases back then. I mean, there are the beginnings of movements and those that set the bar for all who come after them. As time goes on, it become exponentially difficult to be a legendary, innovative individual in that same field. This doesnt take away one bit from the talents and contributions of anyone mentioned thus far in this thread at all, but does come into play...

Are there any new bands today that will be followed like the beatles or elvis in 50 years? Some might say yes, but I think most would say no. That doesnt mean there arent musicians equally as talented, but the timing is wrong right now.

I am in agreement with some of the senitments here that state that there is an innate sense of timing that factors into this that i think is understressed. Legends are nearly always innovators, and almost always also at the top of their craft at any given time. When those two traits mix at the right time in the right place...youve got it. Im not so sure that simply making the best knives out there is enough....
 
David,

Are you basically saying that the pool of talent (both in quality and quantity) was much smaller then? It would make sense.
 
Yup! I think legends are made from makers who are at the top of a craft that no one is paying attention to YET, but have innovative ideas and a drive to get the word out great enough that people start paying attention largely as a result of that person. Just my .02, though...most would-be legends starve before their brilliance catches on :)
 
TikTock said:
Are there any new bands today that will be followed like the beatles or elvis in 50 years? Some might say yes, but I think most would say no. That doesnt mean there arent musicians equally as talented, but the timing is wrong right now.
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Rolling Stones, U2 both come to mind. I see your point, but there are always examples for or against a specific position.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Just received notice that DON FOGG (several mentions of Don above) will be inducted into the ABS Hall of Fame on August 12, 2006 at the Historic Arkansas Museum in Little Rock. JAY HENDRICKSON is the other living inductee while CLYDE FISCHER and HENRY SHIVELY JR will be inducted posthumously (?sp). This would be a potential step towards legend status, I would think.
 
I think Buddy's post outlining a few elements of "superstardom" are very relevant.

In that, I don't see a clear heir to the Loveless/Moran level of poularity. As mentioned several times, Fisk and Onion COULD get there, but only time will tell.

There are several who will never be forgotten based on their quality and originality though. Fogg is certainly one of them. Hard to call him anything but an icon of bladesmithing. Buster Warenski is another. Maybe not Loveless level fame, but I always considered Mr. Warenski to be at least one of the top three makers....ever....IMHO. These guys will go on to become the Samuel Bells, Henrey Shivelys and Michael Prices of our time. Knives that stand on a firm foundation of excellence in workmanship and artistic merit, independent from the makers personality or political positioning int he knife community..
 
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