Who Carries a CS Gunsite?

[DanKwonDo]

So add a lanyard and you are good to go Matador. As for warranty, that'll be the last thing anyone will think about in a self defense situation. I'd then ask, do any of the posters here have any first hand knowledge with Gunsite? If you don't then any speculation on what the CS Gunsite folder can or can't do is mere speculation.

 

[Benjamin Liu]

It would be speculation, but if it is based on experience with the Voyager Tanto which is almost the same thing, it would be accurate speculation. I can't see how a few cosmetic differences would alter the performance.

My AUS 8 Large Voyager cut everything I wanted it to cut. I don't do wierd things with my knives like stab car hoods , so I never tested any of those type of things.

A friend of mine sold Cutco and when doing his presentation he asked for a knife to show how Cutco knives were sharper and I handed him my Voyager, and he did the leather cutting test and was surprised that it beat the Cutco.

The only problem FOR ME is that thumb studs don't work as well as thumb disks or Spyderholes. For some people thumb studs work better.

IMO part of the reason for the warning against the tests is that some of them are dangerous and they don't want people doing them and hurting themselves.

I did to the cutting the corner off the phone book test with my Carbon V Recon Tanto, but that isn't a dangerous test.

 

[Benjamin Liu]

God forbid you half to use a knife for defense, would this be on your top list? Opinions?

No. If I can choose the knife I use for self-defense, I'd get the biggest fixed blade possible, especially a sword if that counts as a knife.

If I'm limited to a folder, especially a folder that I actually own, then the XL Voyager, once opened, would probably be the best due to the size. That's the only large folder I have. My Waved Emerson CQC-7B would open much faster if speed is important.

The XL Voyager or Gunsite would be a good choice to carry for defense if legal in your area, but a little big IMO for a regular use knife, so you might want to also carry a smaller knife for opening packages and things. A Spyderco Endura is a good companion to the Voyager, with an acute point that can get into places the Voyager can't.

 

[3Guardsmen]

So add a lanyard and you are good to go Matador. As for warranty, that'll be the last thing anyone will think about in a self defense situation. I'd then ask, do any of the posters here have any first hand knowledge with Gunsite? If you don't then any speculation on what the CS Gunsite folder can or can't do is mere speculation.

If that question was directed at me:

I owned the smaller version of the Cold Steel Gunsite, back when they (the smaller, 4" bladed ones) first came out, but quickly gifted it to a friend who took a liking to it, as I found very little use for it.

(posted previously, on page 2 of this thread)

In addition, I've owned and used several 4 and 5 inch Cold Steel Voyagers, tanto and clip-point, which are basically the same knives as the Gunsite models, minus the sorry excuse for jimping, the combo edge only, and the swedge.

I've always said the Cold Steel Voyagers are great utility knives, they're just lousy self-defense knives, in my opinion, because they don't provide much in the way of protecting your hand from sliding up on the blade.

Regards,
3G

 

[Cotherion]

I agree with the sliding of the hands onto the blade part, never happened on my Rukus or the CS AK47 but happened once on the CS tanto voyager of mine, lucky there was no injury. The Voyager or Gunsites need something to prevent this as especially the tantos which are marketed as great for stabbing (hence run risk of sliding and followed by hospital bills).

 

[3Guardsmen]

I agree with the sliding of the hands onto the blade part, never happened on my Rukus or the CS AK47 but happened once on the CS tanto voyager of mine, lucky there was no injury. The Voyager or Gunsites need something to prevent this as especially the tantos which are marketed as great for stabbing (hence run risk of sliding and followed by hospital bills).

Yup! Glad you weren't hurt!

I don't understand why a company like Cold Steel, who makes a big show of stabbing knives, specifically tanto-bladed ones, through hard metal objects fails to put what I consider an adequate hand-guard on a few of their tanto-bladed knives.

Ones that come to mind right away are the Voyager Series and the Konjo series, the Recon 1 series, and the Hatamoto.

Regards,
3G

 

[Cotherion]

I'm glad I wasn't hurt too, the last time I hurt myself (SOG Fusion axe into back of left hand) it cost me a bomb in medical bills as well as well as the added hindrance of trying to mop up my bloodied office floor one handed not long after

Actually one problem I run into while using my Rukus (it has a protruding guard thingy extending from the handle) is that often when I one thumb open my knife it sometimes hit the guard. Examining my Recons and Voyagers I assume the inclusion of a guard will result in the same thing which is your thumb hitting the guard while opening.

That being said, I prefer the guards and don't mind the hindrance when using my Rukus.

 

[Matador]

So add a lanyard and you are good to go Matador. .

DanKwonDo,

I was just having a little fun with the thread in my response With regard to thrusting and hand guards, I will quote from both Angel Cabales and Leo Giron, "it's all in the grip" when queired about retaining your blade when executing techniques using balisong which also doesn't have a hand guard. In the 25 some years I watched these men, never once did I see them relieved of their blade, nor encounter any ill effects from repeated thrusts into hard targets. In that vein, I don't have any problems with regard to the Cold Steel Gunsite, or any other brand that doesn't have a handguard. However from this thread it seems many people do. How many folders out there have functional hand guards anyway?

Matador-

 

[Confederate]

The Voyager's handles and the Gunsite's handles are well suited for defensive use as far as I'm concerned. The idea is to not let one's hand slide down the handle onto the blade area, and I can't for the life of me conceive of how that could happen with a knife that size and with that configuration. I used to keep a leather cord to fully secure my hand, but after awhile I realized I just didn't need it. Although it might be some help keeping someone from taking the knife away from me, the grip is just too secure to worry about it. I could ram the blade into the side of a brick building and not let my hand slide over the blade.

The last time I needed the knife, anyway, it was against two dogs. (Unfortunately, I didn't have it with me.)



.

 

[DanKwonDo]

It would be speculation, but if it is based on experience with the Voyager Tanto which is almost the same thing, it would be accurate speculation. I can't see how a few cosmetic differences would alter the performance.

As stated in my inital response, unless you are familiar with Gunsite and have recieved certification in the Edged Weapons curriculum, speculation is all it is.
The CS "Gunsite" is not a "just" a CS Voyager. The Voyager does not have a specific useable methodology based on it's desgn. Modifcations as added to the CS Gunsite are far more than cosmetic as noted by the instructor and have a specific purpose. From the latter reseponses in this thread, the posters critical of the CS Gunsite are indeed not familar with the edged weapon courses once offered at Gunsite and I won't comment further as not to rile any feathers here. I will add however that carrying a Gunsite folder without the intial training that accompanies it, is much like wearing a Harley Davidson t-shirt but not knowing how to ride. That being said, then indeed a CS Voyager is just the same as a CS Gunsite folder. Good luck gentleman and I will continue to monitor this thread from an observers perspective. Thank you for your input.

 

[Benjamin Liu]

I misread your post, I thought you meant having experience with the Gunsite folder.

I have their "Tactical Edged Weapons Vol. 1" video by Richard Ryan, as well as his book, and a former instructor of mine used to train with him and taught me the same techniques in the book and tape, but there was no preference for specific knives in either the book or tape. Ryan seemed to like liner locks since he could fling them open, but said that that just his preference. Is the actual course different from what Ryan shows in the tape?

 

[Confederate]

I have their "Tactical Edged Weapons Vol. 1" video by Richard Ryan. ... Ryan seemed to like liner locks since he could fling them open, but said that that just his preference. Is the actual course different from what Ryan shows in the tape?

I don't know how old those videos are, but many knives these days can be quickly opened. I admit, however, that some can be flung open quicker than others. So far, my fastest knife is my Cold Steel Recon One, which is faster than a switchblade. I don't know whether Ryan has changed his opinion since those videos came out, but I'd think the downsides of liner locks far exceed their virtues.

The jimps on a CS Gunsite may look hokey, but they will provide a place for the thumb and they will do what they were designed to do, which is to control the knife using the thumb. Are they essential to a good defensive knife? No, but they are worth the few bucks extra and they look nice. Any Voyager that size would be fine with me. Even putting oil on my hand and gripping my Voyager X2, I was unable to lose control of it with forward thrusts into cardboard with a leather stop. The Zytel handles are very effective as they come.

 

[Cotherion]

I didn't try cardboard but tree trunk. Because of the way I hammer stabbed it I didn't hurt my hands. I stabbed in an angle where if failure were to occur it won;t come closing on my hands. Basically I hammered it with the edge pointing towards me. Not too hard but with moderate force.

Thanks to my chosen grip my fingers hit the back of the blade instead of the edge. I however did suffer fromthe shock of realising how close to a trip to the doctor I was....

The problem was my grip wasn't strong enough but that wouldn't be a problem with a guard of somesort. I know what Confedrate said is "The idea is to not let one's hand slide down the handle onto the blade area..." but what one hopes to happen may not turn out true in the end. Like telling a new driver (or old) "the idea is not to hit anything...".

Ultimately it has happened to me even with precautions. I rammed my guarded blades with no problem and in case my grip fails the guard will protect me. Assuimg the design of the CS voyager's grips are 100% infallable, try ramming it continuously until your grip weakens (as it will eventually) then there is no guard to protect. True there is really not a case where that would realistically happen but it's not impossible and not everyone maintains a strong grip all the time. Like most cars not driven in insane speeds to brick walls (crash dummies) but it is done (the testing) to help designing take into account the infrequent. Same in this case...

 

[Cotherion]

By the way as long as something is a positive addition (guards in this case) then it's nice they are added. Like seatbelts onto cars back a long ago. Then the people said that seatbelts are hindrances and not necessary if everyone drove within safe speed and with care. The problem is not with the majority but with the infrequent occuring fast drivers or other unexpected occurance in which today all are advised to wear your belts, have crash balloons, have insurance card etc.

I am a safe driver with granny like speed and obssesive attention in road but I would not tell people not to take the additional precaution by telling them the idea is to drive slow and pay attention then you have no need for that extra precaution. Not slamming anyone and though some might say this is not the same issue I feel it's the same.

 

[Cotherion]

DanKwonDo,

I was just having a little fun with the thread in my response With regard to thrusting and hand guards, I will quote from both Angel Cabales and Leo Giron, "it's all in the grip" when queired about retaining your blade when executing techniques using balisong which also doesn't have a hand guard. In the 25 some years I watched these men, never once did I see them relieved of their blade, nor encounter any ill effects from repeated thrusts into hard targets. In that vein, I don't have any problems with regard to the Cold Steel Gunsite, or any other brand that doesn't have a handguard. However from this thread it seems many people do. How many folders out there have functional hand guards anyway?

Matador-

Guards tend ot make thumb opening a little harder as the thumb need to make it past the protruding guard. Benchmade's Rukus has a guard which is nicely executed. CS Ti-lite has one (quillions I think it's called) but it's edgy. Also I think the fairly cheap CS Pocket Bushman has something like a guard which stops the sliding of your hands onto blade.

Stabbing through hard material may have a rebound that is directly proportional to the stabbing force. Meaning the harder you stab (if onto hard material, like chest plate or protective clothing ) the harder it hits your hands. At one point of continuous stabbing you will either experiance grip weakening or grip inconsistancy and coupled with hard rebound at some point the friction resistance obtainable is less than the sliding force. Hence personal injury.

A guard will result in your hands hitting the guard at typical unfortunate scenario. The guard stopping the sliding of the hands since not only your grip, friction of handle at that time (proportional to grip force), perpendicularness of impact and the level of impact force.

 

[Confederate]

The way Benchmade makes their knives, it would be difficult to lose one's grip on the blade as the frame accommodates a firm grip, and a very ergonomic one. Since my defensive knife would primarily be used as a slashing weapon—stabbing only if I found an opening—it's not an issue with me. If I had to hammer a knife into a car door a la Lynn Thompson, a guard would be a must. Also, if I thought I was going to have to pry a door open with a knife, I'd probably use a beefy tanto like the CS Pro-Lite. The Pro-Lite's grip is much more stab and pry friendly than the Voyagers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole idea is to protect the hand if you miss a target and hit something grossly immovable or impenetrable. I'm coming up on 60 pretty fast and I've never had a situation where I've come close to hitting such. I'm not a trained commando or anything, but I know where I can get one and I'll run it by him. In the meantime, it's a good question and of course anyone's welcome to weigh in.

BTW, anyone wanting a book with fascinating stories combined with "how to" self defense with knives and guns, I recommend Secrets Of Street Survival - Israeli Style: Staying Alive In A Civilian War Zone, by Eugene Sockut. (One of the knives he recommends, BTW, is the Cold Steel Voyager.)

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[Cotherion]

Your description of the function of a guard (if that is what you are refering to) is more accurate methinks It sorta fits in with my paranoid and worrying (little not a lot) mindset. As well as protecting the hands when something (blade, stuff or etc.) slips past the blade towards the hands.

I suppose a tree is immovable and inpenetrable. In my personal experiance (and last cause I'll never do it again and especially with THAT knife) it's bloody frightening when it slips your hands...

With regards to prying I would really like it if someone did a Noss on the CS Voyagers or Gunsites since they have no liners and the pivot cross section is a little thin. It may be adequate though. My best pryer is a CRKT M16 Titanium which I added one more steel liner to make the total liners into 2. At moderate to hard prying the handle does not flex anymore and this is especially noticable in the region near or at the pivot.

I agree with the Benchmade being well made in this particular aspect and for me the most excellent in this regard is the Rukus with it's tapering (slightly) handle and intergrated guard.

 

[glend65]

One of the main differences between the Voyagers and Gunsites is that the Gunsites have heavier lock springs. They are a little harder to press to release the lock but they also seem to be more secure. Not that the Voyagers' locks aren't secure...they are quite strong.